Air Defense System

[Ninja_Bait]

You don't want it to point up, you want it to point slightly to one side. Pushing the ball up may not cause a miss (it just falls into the basket from a higher point). Pushing the ball to the side will disrupt the intended trajectory in both azimuth and elevation, and make it more likely to miss.

[Rocketeeringer]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait

You don't want it to point up, you want it to point slightly to one side. Pushing the ball up may not cause a miss (it just falls into the basket from a higher point). Pushing the ball to the side will disrupt the intended trajectory in both azimuth and elevation, and make it more likely to miss.

Pointing it up could actually assist the ball into the hoop if you're unlucky

[tcjinaz]

So instead of air, uses balls as SAM's (Surface to Air Missile).

[Ninja_Bait]

If you can hit a ball with another ball, you should:
a. work for NASA and:
b. use your impressive engineering and programming skills to make a killer offensive robot instead of a defensive one.

[gyroscopeRaptor]

Also, pushing the balls up may likely push them out of the court, incurring a foul under <G13>.

This makes any uber-fan idea flawed, IMO.

[theprgramerdude]

Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor

Also, pushing the balls up may likely push them out of the court, incurring a foul under <G13>.

This makes any uber-fan idea flawed, IMO.

Completely feasible, IMO. It's not a matter of generating tornado-strength winds here, it's simply about generating a directed draft that, for the fraction of a second that the ball is in the jet stream from the fan, apply a force that alters it's momentum to the side by a tiny amount. By the time the ball reaches the next, it'd have moved enough to possibly cause a missed shot.

A similar idea is with making space objects miss Earth; a small force early in flight can cause a huge gap later. For this, the fact that the shots need to be rather precise means that the fact that time in flight is short wouldn't matter if a decent amount of force is applied.

The balls weight will prevent any serious deflection, but a draft from a decently-sized fan (20"?) powered by a few motors should provide quite a bit of push necessary to move anything in it's way.'

Edit: And a brilliant idea just occurred to me: Why not have an active targeting system combined with the air knife idea?
I.E. A giant fan is always running when needed, producing a huge draft, which is then directed into a controlled funnel system that automatically turns towards and directs the air into the path of inbound basketballs. It'd have the force bonus of a funnel while being capable of constantly hitting the ball, drastically increasing the impulse given to the ball, changing it's course.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait

If you can hit a ball with another ball, you should:
a. work for NASA and:
b. use your impressive engineering and programming skills to make a killer offensive robot instead of a defensive one.

I agree. Even tracking the ball in mid air and predicting where it is going is unbelievable for a highschool student to do. Keep in mind the delay of the camera and you might only get the ball in one frame. You would have to differentiate it from all the other balls on the field and then calculate its projectory, then calculate the angle of the shooter and shoot, all within a split second.


Even with the air idea, not feasible.

[Nuttyman54]

971 tested this idea in 2006 and found it was not feasible. The most effective method was an electric leafblower, and that only deflected the balls an appreciable ammount when the stream of air closely tracked the ball for several seconds. You would have to use then best motors in the kit, sacrificing your drive train, to even come close to the power required to achieve this, and even then you would need an incredibly accurate tracking method to make it work. This also means in a volley of 3 balls, you can only deflect one at most due to the time duration of deflecting opportunity

[tcjinaz]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait

If you can hit a ball with another ball, you should:
a. work for NASA and:
b. use your impressive engineering and programming skills to make a killer offensive robot instead of a defensive one.

First, I yield to <G13> The strategy I proposed will quite likely blow every target out of the Field and into the stands. Safety First.

Onward:
Ah, the reason you don't think I already work for such an outfit is what? (Watch the .sigs)

NASA historically doesn't try to hit other things. Other Agencies (SDI, <litany of US DoD orgs> et al) have tried and succeeded to do so, repeatedly.

Deflection (note, not destruction) of a basketball with another basketball using a control system with a 50mS control loop at ~12ft ranges with known targets from a relatively fixed position near those targets should be easier that dropping the same ball into a basket. Such an automated response during tele-op mode is not unreasonable.

Sure, I start with 2 rounds. I can reload, and if my team sees the value, they'll reload me.

And if I am sitting in the opposition's key, I'm at 84in for the sensor, shooter or both.

Of course, if we get it wrong, we drop balls into the opposition goals. How is that scored?


Now we're having fun

[Lil' Lavery]

Did a mentor just seriously suggest that hitting a rapidly moving target by using the provided control and sensors in a FRC environment would be easier than hitting a stationary target? Then rule out the strategy because of the safety concerns regarding a foam ball?

Really?

[tcjinaz]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Did a mentor just seriously suggest that hitting a rapidly moving target by using the provided control and sensors in a FRC environment would be easier than hitting a stationary target? Then rule out the strategy because of the safety concerns regarding a foam ball?

Really?

I'm a software guy; are we ever serious about hardware? And I didn't say it was easier; but it is a defense mechanism with offensively capable hardware.

Actually, I think I ruled the idea out first on rule <G13>, which has a safety bent to it.

And in response to another post, the key is not carpet, it is HDPE. So if my 'bot is entirely in the opponent's key, it is not on carpet, and can extend to 84inches.

[Josh Murphy]

Originally Posted by tcjinaz

I'm a software guy; are we ever serious about hardware? And I didn't say it was easier; but it is a defense mechanism with offensively capable hardware.

Actually, I think I ruled the idea out first on rule <G13>, which has a safety bent to it.

And in response to another post, the key is not carpet, it is HDPE. So if my 'bot is entirely in the opponent's key, it is not on carpet, and can extend to 84inches.

Actually, only the top of the key is made of hdpe, which is protected if your opposition is touching it. The rest of the key is carpeted.

[KrazyCarl92]

Originally Posted by Josh Murphy

Actually, only the top of the key is made of hdpe, which is protected if your opposition is touching it. The rest of the key is carpeted.

The entire key is HDPE. The semicircular velcroed HDPE area is the key. This does not include the rectangular carpet area outlined by the "purely for decoration" tape.

[Josh Murphy]

Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92

The entire key is HDPE. The semicircular velcroed HDPE area is the key. This does not include the rectangular carpet area outlined by the "purely for decoration" tape.

The key in basketball is generally the entire painted area under the basket. The semi-circle is commonly called the "top of the key". My point here is that if they plan to park on the key and extend, all an opponent has to do is drive into them and they would incur a technical foul.

[Rocketeeringer]

Originally Posted by Josh Murphy

The key in basketball is generally the entire painted area under the basket. The semi-circle is commonly called the "top of the key". My point here is that if they plan to park on the key and extend, all an opponent has to do is drive into them and they would incur a technical foul.

depends, rules G28 and G44 together protect robots in the key and alleys but G45 protects robots from others trying to intentionally incur a penalty