Coopetition Ramp

[DjMaddius]

How about touching the ground while you are still on the ramp at the end of the match, is this allowed? Having something touching the ground yet still being within 5 degrees. Or would we not get our points?

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by DjMaddius

How about touching the ground while you are still on the ramp at the end of the match, is this allowed? Having something touching the ground yet still being within 5 degrees. Or would we not get our points?

Nope, unless your robot is FULLY supported by the bridge, nope.

[DjMaddius]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Nope, unless your robot is FULLY supported by the bridge, nope.

Ah, alright, so no cheating then and just balancing it by pushing off the floor. Glad to hear that.

[Madison]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

Nope, unless your robot is FULLY supported by the bridge, nope.

Section 2.2.5 reads, "A Bridge will count as Balanced if it is within 5° of horizontal."

Is there anything more in the manual that defines "balanced"? If not, at this point, it does not appear to require that robots be supported only by the bridge.

[DjMaddius]

Originally Posted by Madison

Section 2.2.5 reads, "A Bridge will count as Balanced if it is within 5° of horizontal."

Is there anything more in the manual that defines "balanced"? If not, at this point, it does not appear to require that robots be supported only by the bridge.

That could be good news for some teams, if they see this advantage they will get the points every round. Otherwise, they risk not getting the points.

[Kellen Hill]

The bonus qualification points are huge! A team that is 0-10, but completed the coopertition bridge every match, could actually rank above a 10-0 team that never once did it. Improbable but possible. It's also a much much much better way to boost yourself in the rankings compared to 'fixing' the match score in ways such as scoring for the opponent as has been done in the past.

I can also imagine a role of a third bot during qualifications to balance the coopertition bridge for the set of bots on top of it. Of course this would involve a 10 point tradeoff (not having 2 bots on your own ramp). But the tradeoff may be well worth is as you would still get the 2 qualification points if the bridge is balanced. If those 10 points lost didn't cause your alliance to lose the match, then you get the 4 qualification points for the match. This strategy may prove helpful during qualifications to boost your ranking, but becomes rather useless in the eliminations unless you skip on the idea of getting all 3 bots up and just get the 2 up and balanced. The perfect bot for this strategy would simply have an assembly to hold the bridge in the 'balanced' position once the two bots are on top.

Thoughts?

And in regards to if robots can be touching the ground for a balanced bridge, there is poor clarification at this point, and I am expecting it to be clarified in an update. This is what I expect, but I could very well be wrong. We shall see

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Madison

Section 2.2.5 reads, "A Bridge will count as Balanced if it is within 5° of horizontal."

Is there anything more in the manual that defines "balanced"? If not, at this point, it does not appear to require that robots be supported only by the bridge.

Correct so far, but I'm willing to bet a rules update will say so... We have to read these rules as engineering guidelines and with common sense, and not try to 'lawyer' them -- chances are very good that this one will be explained away.

As to the discussion on whether or not to do the coopertition ramp, the answer is yes in all situations save one: if you have a choice of only doing your own ramp (or something else to score points) or the coopertition ramp, and doing that alternate thing will likely result in a win, it is to your alliance's seeding advantage to do that alternate thing instead of the coopertition ramp.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Madison

Am I missing something? Close matches between teams vying for high seeds -- the people most likely to succeed at the task -- disincentivize attempting it because a win with no coopertition bonus (+2 QP gain on your opponent) is better than a loss with a coopertition bonus (-2 QP gain on your opponent).

Assuming the other four robots are capable of balancing on their bridges, there's no downside to attempting the Coopertition Bridge that I can see.

If you win without the bonus, the delta is +2 QP over the opposing alliance. (You get 2, they get 0.)
If you win with the bonus, the delta is +2 QP over the opposing alliance. (You get 4, they get 2.)
If you lose without the bonus, the delta is -2 QP over the opposing alliance. (They get 2, you get 0.)
If you lose with the bonus, the delta is -2 QP over the opposing alliance. (They get 4, you get 2.)

With the bonus, you are both +2 over All Those Other Teams Not In That Match.

Put your top two balancers on getting your alliance bridge balanced, let the third get Coopertition. Done.

[LafondaOnFire]

Don't forget that <G41> also states that:
"If the Coopertition Bridge is not balanced, but a Robot from each Alliance is fully supported by the Coopertition Bridge, each Alliance will earn 1 Coopertition Point."

A free tie on top of the final outcome of the game is not to be discounted. It seems like even the effort to balance the Coopetition Ramp is worthwhile, even if not feasible.

[BJC]

Originally Posted by Billfred

Assuming the other four robots are capable of balancing on their bridges, there's no downside to attempting the Coopertition Bridge that I can see.
/Snip

This is not a good assumption to make..

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Cyberphil

This idea is a very unique and ingenious way to promote Coopertition that I hope the GDC puts into use for years to come. I think you will see more Coopertition this year than ever.

Last year at the events I attended I only saw a few cases of Coopertition (sharing minibots for those of you who don't know) and in most cases it was in eliminations within an alliance. The problem, in my opinion, with last year was if you shared a minibot with another team who was not on your alliance you risk eventually loosing to them (if you did not take the minibot away from them when you played against them).

This years Coopertition eliminates that problem by making it relatively useless in the finals (unless you are trying to win the award), and only beneficial in the quals.

I see what you did there GDC...

To me that was the beauty of last years coopertition that if your playing in the true spirit of it you may come up against your own machine. If we had advanced past the quarter finals last year in Seattle we would have went up against our own minibot. I would have loved to see our minibot go up against our minibot in the semis or finals.

Like last year, coopertition points are only awarded in quals. But you are right there is no risk involved as there was last year.