Go to Post For me, this is the most powerful message of FIRST, that people can come together and work together to achieve so much, and leave old rivalries, grudges, and hard feelings behind. When people talk about culture change, this is what I hope for. - Aren Siekmeier [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 2 votes, 4.50 average. Display Modes
  #46   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2012, 02:01
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is offline
TSIMFD
AKA: Sean Lavery
FRC #1712 (DAWGMA)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 6,641
Lil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond reputeLil' Lavery has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Lil' Lavery
Re: Air Defense System

Did a mentor just seriously suggest that hitting a rapidly moving target by using the provided control and sensors in a FRC environment would be easier than hitting a stationary target? Then rule out the strategy because of the safety concerns regarding a foam ball?

Really?
Reply With Quote
  #47   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2012, 02:13
Kpchem Kpchem is offline
FTA, CSA, and all things technical
AKA: Kevin Emery
no team
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 216
Kpchem is a splendid one to beholdKpchem is a splendid one to beholdKpchem is a splendid one to beholdKpchem is a splendid one to beholdKpchem is a splendid one to beholdKpchem is a splendid one to beholdKpchem is a splendid one to behold
Re: Air Defense System

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcjinaz View Post

And if I am sitting in the opposition's key, I'm at 84in for the sensor, shooter or both.
If you are in the opponent's key, then you are on the carpet on your alliance station's end of the court, and therefore you can only expand to 60 inches as per rule G20.

[G20] (emphasis mine)

"Robots in contact with the carpet on their Alliance Station end of the Court are limited to 60 in tall. Otherwise, Robots are limited to 84 in tall.

Violation: Foul; or Technical-Foul for repeated or continuous violation."
__________________
FRC 360: 2008-2011
Full-time Volunteer: 2012 - forever
Reply With Quote
  #48   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2012, 02:49
theprgramerdude theprgramerdude is offline
WPI Freshman
AKA: Alex
FRC #2503 (Warrior Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Brainerd, Minnesota
Posts: 347
theprgramerdude has much to be proud oftheprgramerdude has much to be proud oftheprgramerdude has much to be proud oftheprgramerdude has much to be proud oftheprgramerdude has much to be proud oftheprgramerdude has much to be proud oftheprgramerdude has much to be proud oftheprgramerdude has much to be proud oftheprgramerdude has much to be proud oftheprgramerdude has much to be proud of
Re: Air Defense System

Quote:
Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor View Post
Also, pushing the balls up may likely push them out of the court, incurring a foul under <G13>.

This makes any uber-fan idea flawed, IMO.
Completely feasible, IMO. It's not a matter of generating tornado-strength winds here, it's simply about generating a directed draft that, for the fraction of a second that the ball is in the jet stream from the fan, apply a force that alters it's momentum to the side by a tiny amount. By the time the ball reaches the next, it'd have moved enough to possibly cause a missed shot.

A similar idea is with making space objects miss Earth; a small force early in flight can cause a huge gap later. For this, the fact that the shots need to be rather precise means that the fact that time in flight is short wouldn't matter if a decent amount of force is applied.

The balls weight will prevent any serious deflection, but a draft from a decently-sized fan (20"?) powered by a few motors should provide quite a bit of push necessary to move anything in it's way.'

Edit: And a brilliant idea just occurred to me: Why not have an active targeting system combined with the air knife idea?
I.E. A giant fan is always running when needed, producing a huge draft, which is then directed into a controlled funnel system that automatically turns towards and directs the air into the path of inbound basketballs. It'd have the force bonus of a funnel while being capable of constantly hitting the ball, drastically increasing the impulse given to the ball, changing it's course.
__________________
Attending: MN Duluth Regional

Last edited by theprgramerdude : 09-01-2012 at 02:55.
Reply With Quote
  #49   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2012, 06:45
Ninja_Bait's Avatar
Ninja_Bait Ninja_Bait is offline
Former Prez of Making Things Go
AKA: Jake Potter
FRC #0694 (StuyPulse)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: New York
Posts: 650
Ninja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond reputeNinja_Bait has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Air Defense System

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcjinaz View Post
NASA historically doesn't try to hit other things. Other Agencies (SDI, <litany of US DoD orgs> et al) have tried and succeeded to do so, repeatedly.
That's what they do all the time. They hit Mars, the Moon and at least two (?) asteroids with little probes. And the planets are slow and much bigger than the probes, and it's STILL not easy.

As for deflection, I think everyone is overestimating the effects of "tiny" disruptions. If I aimed and shot a ball intended for the middle of a hoop, it has more than 5 inches of tolerance in any direction. If it hits the rim or backboard first, there is still a good chance of it scoring. You can't push it far enough.
__________________
You can't fix something that isn't broken... but you can always break things that aren't fixed!

Reply With Quote
  #50   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2012, 07:35
staplemonx's Avatar
staplemonx staplemonx is offline
The Idea Guy
AKA: JJ Biel-Goebel
FRC #1389 (The Body Electric)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 249
staplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond reputestaplemonx has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Air Defense System

I like the idea and in general you only need to impact the trajectory of a ball by a few degrees. We are putting this on our want list and may get to after we bag the robot.
__________________
crazy engineer
www.jjbiel-goebel.com
helping team 1389
http://team1389.com/
Reply With Quote
  #51   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2012, 07:56
CliffyTheGamer's Avatar
CliffyTheGamer CliffyTheGamer is offline
Registered User
FRC #4070
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Indiana
Posts: 5
CliffyTheGamer is on a distinguished road
Re: Air Defense System

I love the idea.
__________________


"One has to look out for engineers they begin with sewing machines and end up with the atomic bomb"
Reply With Quote
  #52   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2012, 23:11
tcjinaz tcjinaz is offline
Tim
FRC #3853
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 206
tcjinaz has a spectacular aura abouttcjinaz has a spectacular aura about
Re: Air Defense System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
Did a mentor just seriously suggest that hitting a rapidly moving target by using the provided control and sensors in a FRC environment would be easier than hitting a stationary target? Then rule out the strategy because of the safety concerns regarding a foam ball?

Really?
I'm a software guy; are we ever serious about hardware? And I didn't say it was easier; but it is a defense mechanism with offensively capable hardware.

Actually, I think I ruled the idea out first on rule <G13>, which has a safety bent to it.

And in response to another post, the key is not carpet, it is HDPE. So if my 'bot is entirely in the opponent's key, it is not on carpet, and can extend to 84inches.
__________________
Software Mentor
3853 Pridetronics[

Reply With Quote
  #53   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2012, 23:28
Josh Murphy's Avatar
Josh Murphy Josh Murphy is offline
Registered User
AKA: Josh
FRC #0051 (Wings of Fire)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Clarkston, Mi
Posts: 401
Josh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Air Defense System

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcjinaz View Post
I'm a software guy; are we ever serious about hardware? And I didn't say it was easier; but it is a defense mechanism with offensively capable hardware.

Actually, I think I ruled the idea out first on rule <G13>, which has a safety bent to it.

And in response to another post, the key is not carpet, it is HDPE. So if my 'bot is entirely in the opponent's key, it is not on carpet, and can extend to 84inches.
Actually, only the top of the key is made of hdpe, which is protected if your opposition is touching it. The rest of the key is carpeted.
__________________
-Josh Murphy-
Reply With Quote
  #54   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2012, 23:37
KrazyCarl92's Avatar
KrazyCarl92 KrazyCarl92 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Carl Springli
FRC #0020 (The Rocketeers)(EWCP)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Posts: 522
KrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond reputeKrazyCarl92 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Air Defense System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Murphy View Post
Actually, only the top of the key is made of hdpe, which is protected if your opposition is touching it. The rest of the key is carpeted.


The entire key is HDPE. The semicircular velcroed HDPE area is the key. This does not include the rectangular carpet area outlined by the "purely for decoration" tape.
__________________
[2017-present] FRC 0020 - The Rocketeers
[2016] FRC 5811 - BONDS Robotics
[2010-2015] FRC 0020 - The Rocketeers
Reply With Quote
  #55   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-01-2012, 23:45
Josh Murphy's Avatar
Josh Murphy Josh Murphy is offline
Registered User
AKA: Josh
FRC #0051 (Wings of Fire)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Clarkston, Mi
Posts: 401
Josh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond reputeJosh Murphy has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Air Defense System

Quote:
Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92 View Post


The entire key is HDPE. The semicircular velcroed HDPE area is the key. This does not include the rectangular carpet area outlined by the "purely for decoration" tape.
The key in basketball is generally the entire painted area under the basket. The semi-circle is commonly called the "top of the key". My point here is that if they plan to park on the key and extend, all an opponent has to do is drive into them and they would incur a technical foul.
__________________
-Josh Murphy-
Reply With Quote
  #56   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2012, 11:37
Rocketeeringer's Avatar
Rocketeeringer Rocketeeringer is offline
Registered User
FRC #0020 (The Rocketeers)
Team Role: Communications
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Clifton Park, NY
Posts: 18
Rocketeeringer is on a distinguished road
Re: Air Defense System

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh Murphy View Post
The key in basketball is generally the entire painted area under the basket. The semi-circle is commonly called the "top of the key". My point here is that if they plan to park on the key and extend, all an opponent has to do is drive into them and they would incur a technical foul.
depends, rules G28 and G44 together protect robots in the key and alleys but G45 protects robots from others trying to intentionally incur a penalty
Reply With Quote
  #57   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 28-06-2012, 23:48
tcjinaz tcjinaz is offline
Tim
FRC #3853
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2011
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Arizona
Posts: 206
tcjinaz has a spectacular aura abouttcjinaz has a spectacular aura about
Re: Air Defense System

For those of you who doubted my SAM suggestion:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21334084

__________________
Software Mentor
3853 Pridetronics[

Reply With Quote
  #58   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 29-06-2012, 14:53
Garrett.d.w's Avatar
Garrett.d.w Garrett.d.w is offline
Build Lead
FRC #2733 (The Pigmice)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Portland
Posts: 318
Garrett.d.w is a splendid one to beholdGarrett.d.w is a splendid one to beholdGarrett.d.w is a splendid one to beholdGarrett.d.w is a splendid one to beholdGarrett.d.w is a splendid one to beholdGarrett.d.w is a splendid one to beholdGarrett.d.w is a splendid one to behold
Re: Air Defense System

Quote:
Originally Posted by tcjinaz View Post
For those of you who doubted my SAM suggestion:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21334084

For those who just want the punch line, begin watching at 38 seconds. This is truly epic.
__________________
"A mind once stretched by a thought will never regain it's original dimensions."

Optimists think the glass is half full.
Pessimists think the glass is half empty.
Engineers realize it's twice as big as it needs to be.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 16:22.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi