Inbounding or Hoarding Balls

[SteveGPage]

Originally Posted by Taylor

Only 4 of the 6 balls are available to a team.

A minimum of 4 are available to a team, there could be more, though, due to the extras, if there are any, being placed on the Coopertition Bridge.

[G05] Each Bridge will be preset with two Basketballs. Basketballs allotted to Robots that are not used, will be preset on the Coopertition Bridge.
(emphasis mine)

[Michael Hill]

Is putting balls on the ground considered "holding"? Now what about juggling?

Yeah, yeah...loopholes, I know. Just thinking outside the box.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by SteveGPage

A minimum of 4 are available to a team, there could be more, though, due to the extras, if there are any, being placed on the Coopertition Bridge.

[G05] Each Bridge will be preset with two Basketballs. Basketballs allotted to Robots that are not used, will be preset on the Coopertition Bridge.
(emphasis mine)

I believe that the highest number of balls on the middle bridge could be 14 balls
2 to start
and 6 more from EACH alliance (if no robot on the field puts any on their robot) 2 per robot not using them... 3 X 2 X 2 alliances

That being said... IF a robot can shoot and come back to the middle and get balls... they could only control three before they shoot.

Even with a Kinect controlled Hybrid Auto Robot... I would think any team would be hard pressed to shoot 2... go back and get three and shoot them and then come back AGAIN for 3 more and shoot them in 15 seconds...so I would imagine that the realistic limit for score during auto would be

36 plus 18 which would be 54 points

Now IF one robot could do that autonmously... and another Kinect robot could grab 3 more balls and shoot them...after the autonomous robot scored 3...you could possibly have a score of 54 + 18 or 72...

That would incredible... the only problem is that it would require the opposing alliance to put at least 4 of its 6 balls in the middle. (to get to six extra on the middle bridge side)...

If I were on the opposing side against an alliance that COULD do this in an elimination ... I would find a way to put 2 balls on each robot...

I think during eliminations we will be looking at max scores of
36 plus 2 middle balls or 48 points...for the reason given directly above.

[tim-tim]

Will we be able to touch or tilt the Coopertition Bridge if their are more than 3 balls on it at an point in the match? Tilting the bridge would be then controlling the motion of all of the balls on the bridge. A given robot isnot allowed to control the motion of more than 3 balls at a time.

I know this is not the intent of the rule, but it is not excluded either.

[T Wallas Pog]

You could hoard an amount of balls in your lane given that when they enter your lane and you tap them it gives you three points. Essentially if your inbounders held 6 balls and your robots held 9 then the other three could be hoarded in the lane. This could work as long as the guarding robot was a significant distance away from the loose balls so it wouldn't be considered controlling the ball.

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by T Wallas Pog

You could hoard an amount of balls in your lane given that when they enter your lane and you tap them it gives you three points. Essentially if your inbounders held 6 balls and your robots held 9 then the other three could be hoarded in the lane. This could work as long as the guarding robot was a significant distance away from the loose balls so it wouldn't be considered controlling the ball.

You are still controlling the balls when they are in your alley:

Moving or positioning a Basketball to gain advantage is considered actively controlling. Examples are “carrying” (holding Basketballs in the Robot), “herding” (intentionally pushing or impelling Basketballs to a desired location or direction) and “trapping” (pressing one or more Basketballs against a Court element in an attempt to shield them).

Emphasis mine. Blue box [G22]

[wilhitern1]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

You are still controlling the balls when they are in your alley

I'd say that only while you are moving them are you considered to be controlling them. Thus the specification of trapping the ball.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

You are still controlling the balls when they are in your alley:



Emphasis mine. Blue box [G22]

But the robot is not "moving or positioning" the balls at all; the inbounders are putting them there, and the robot is simply blocking them. I can't find anything in the rules that bans this strategy yet, although I wouldn't be surprised if there is soon...

[George Nishimura]

It depends on the G28 ruling too, because there is no rule that says you can't go in to the opposition alley. Unless you are saying the robot is protecting those balls by blocking the other robot, then it is controlling under the rules.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Gnishi2011

because there is no rule that says you can't go in to the opposition alley.

Not exactly, but there IS a rule that says you can't touch an opposition robot while it is in its own alley. And you can't fit 1.0 robots into an 0.9 robot wide space.

As for "controlling", read that part of the rules again.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by DonRotolo

Not exactly, but there IS a rule that says you can't touch an opposition robot while it is in its own alley. And you can't fit 1.0 robots into an 0.9 robot wide space.

As for "controlling", read that part of the rules again.

When did a "robot" become a standard unit of measure?

[nocapitals]

[G23]
Robots on the same Alliance may not work together to blockade the Court in an attempt to stop the flow of the Match. This rule has no effect on individual Robot-to-Robot defense.
Violation: Technical-Foul

Emphasis mine, but it stands to reason that holding all/some of the balls in the alley would stop the flow of the match.

Even if you did hold the balls, that could be considered controlling, so lets say that you're holding only three balls, if they gave you the technical foul mentioned above, those balls will only make up for the penalty (if you got them all in).

tl;dr: Rules are too vague, not worth it.

[Paul Copioli]

Man this happens every year and DR. Joe fell into it ... You have been gone too long my friend. What I mean is that every year we grossly underestimate how hard it is to score ... I mean grossly!!

36 in Auton ... not on Einstein. Maybe at IRI, maybe. I don't doubt all three robots will score in auton on Einstein, but not all three in the high goal. It is too risky for just one lousy extra point. I am not going to risk 5 to get 1.

In any case, scoring is way harder this year than in any other shooting game year and the double balance will be a crucial decider in most matches. I see matches that are 20 - 10 with all the points coming from balance.

In any case, this makes Dr. Joe's hoarding scenario even more plausible in this game.

I don't know how I feel about the triple balance. Right now I am leaning towards that act being in the same place as the Lochness Monster: A few will claim they have seen it, but no one will be able to prove it.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

I don't know how I feel about the triple balance. Right now I am leaning towards that act being in the same place as the Lochness Monster: A few will claim they have seen it, but no one will be able to prove it.

I have very similar feelings now. After thinking through it, that sounds a lot like the hanging off of a hanging robot in 2010.

Think for a second three drivers reacting to the bridge going past equilibrium and trying to counter. I mean, we don't all have Nick Lawrence for drivers!

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

I have very similar feelings now. After thinking through it, that sounds a lot like the hanging off of a hanging robot in 2010.

Wholeheartedly disagree.

Not only do I think you'll see it (remember, we DID see it in 2010, from 2337 and alliance), but I think it will be a common feature of Regional Champion alliances. 20 pts is just too huge to give up. The 1 extra point in 2010 wasnt worth it, but 20 extra points in 2012 is. You have to make 7 top shelf baskets to make up for it.