Air Defense System

[Lil' Lavery]

Did a mentor just seriously suggest that hitting a rapidly moving target by using the provided control and sensors in a FRC environment would be easier than hitting a stationary target? Then rule out the strategy because of the safety concerns regarding a foam ball?

Really?

[Kpchem]

Originally Posted by tcjinaz

And if I am sitting in the opposition's key, I'm at 84in for the sensor, shooter or both.

If you are in the opponent's key, then you are on the carpet on your alliance station's end of the court, and therefore you can only expand to 60 inches as per rule G20.

[G20] (emphasis mine)

"Robots in contact with the carpet on their Alliance Station end of the Court are limited to 60 in tall. Otherwise, Robots are limited to 84 in tall.

Violation: Foul; or Technical-Foul for repeated or continuous violation."

[theprgramerdude]

Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor

Also, pushing the balls up may likely push them out of the court, incurring a foul under <G13>.

This makes any uber-fan idea flawed, IMO.

Completely feasible, IMO. It's not a matter of generating tornado-strength winds here, it's simply about generating a directed draft that, for the fraction of a second that the ball is in the jet stream from the fan, apply a force that alters it's momentum to the side by a tiny amount. By the time the ball reaches the next, it'd have moved enough to possibly cause a missed shot.

A similar idea is with making space objects miss Earth; a small force early in flight can cause a huge gap later. For this, the fact that the shots need to be rather precise means that the fact that time in flight is short wouldn't matter if a decent amount of force is applied.

The balls weight will prevent any serious deflection, but a draft from a decently-sized fan (20"?) powered by a few motors should provide quite a bit of push necessary to move anything in it's way.'

Edit: And a brilliant idea just occurred to me: Why not have an active targeting system combined with the air knife idea?
I.E. A giant fan is always running when needed, producing a huge draft, which is then directed into a controlled funnel system that automatically turns towards and directs the air into the path of inbound basketballs. It'd have the force bonus of a funnel while being capable of constantly hitting the ball, drastically increasing the impulse given to the ball, changing it's course.

[Ninja_Bait]

Originally Posted by tcjinaz

NASA historically doesn't try to hit other things. Other Agencies (SDI, <litany of US DoD orgs> et al) have tried and succeeded to do so, repeatedly.

That's what they do all the time. They hit Mars, the Moon and at least two (?) asteroids with little probes. And the planets are slow and much bigger than the probes, and it's STILL not easy.

As for deflection, I think everyone is overestimating the effects of "tiny" disruptions. If I aimed and shot a ball intended for the middle of a hoop, it has more than 5 inches of tolerance in any direction. If it hits the rim or backboard first, there is still a good chance of it scoring. You can't push it far enough.

[staplemonx]

I like the idea and in general you only need to impact the trajectory of a ball by a few degrees. We are putting this on our want list and may get to after we bag the robot.

[CliffyTheGamer]

I love the idea.

[tcjinaz]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Did a mentor just seriously suggest that hitting a rapidly moving target by using the provided control and sensors in a FRC environment would be easier than hitting a stationary target? Then rule out the strategy because of the safety concerns regarding a foam ball?

Really?

I'm a software guy; are we ever serious about hardware? And I didn't say it was easier; but it is a defense mechanism with offensively capable hardware.

Actually, I think I ruled the idea out first on rule <G13>, which has a safety bent to it.

And in response to another post, the key is not carpet, it is HDPE. So if my 'bot is entirely in the opponent's key, it is not on carpet, and can extend to 84inches.

[Josh Murphy]

Originally Posted by tcjinaz

I'm a software guy; are we ever serious about hardware? And I didn't say it was easier; but it is a defense mechanism with offensively capable hardware.

Actually, I think I ruled the idea out first on rule <G13>, which has a safety bent to it.

And in response to another post, the key is not carpet, it is HDPE. So if my 'bot is entirely in the opponent's key, it is not on carpet, and can extend to 84inches.

Actually, only the top of the key is made of hdpe, which is protected if your opposition is touching it. The rest of the key is carpeted.

[KrazyCarl92]

Originally Posted by Josh Murphy

Actually, only the top of the key is made of hdpe, which is protected if your opposition is touching it. The rest of the key is carpeted.

The entire key is HDPE. The semicircular velcroed HDPE area is the key. This does not include the rectangular carpet area outlined by the "purely for decoration" tape.

[Josh Murphy]

Originally Posted by KrazyCarl92

The entire key is HDPE. The semicircular velcroed HDPE area is the key. This does not include the rectangular carpet area outlined by the "purely for decoration" tape.

The key in basketball is generally the entire painted area under the basket. The semi-circle is commonly called the "top of the key". My point here is that if they plan to park on the key and extend, all an opponent has to do is drive into them and they would incur a technical foul.

[Rocketeeringer]

Originally Posted by Josh Murphy

The key in basketball is generally the entire painted area under the basket. The semi-circle is commonly called the "top of the key". My point here is that if they plan to park on the key and extend, all an opponent has to do is drive into them and they would incur a technical foul.

depends, rules G28 and G44 together protect robots in the key and alleys but G45 protects robots from others trying to intentionally incur a penalty

[tcjinaz]

For those of you who doubted my SAM suggestion:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21334084

[Garrett.d.w]

Originally Posted by tcjinaz

For those of you who doubted my SAM suggestion:

http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/21334084

For those who just want the punch line, begin watching at 38 seconds. This is truly epic.