The Key and the Alley

[ethen155]

Okay, so we were woundering if you are in the key, and your opponet is in their ally, and you touch, who get penilized?

[slijin]

The distance between the key and the alley is ~61", so any such occurrences will be relatively rare. If it does occur, however, the rules imply that it will be the case that both alliances will be penalized.

To be quite honest, this should be asked on the official FIRST Q&A so you can get a definitive answer.

I'm not sure if you can reach that far, but if you can, it will be the offender's fault. If you're in your key and they touching their alley come and touch you, it's their fault. And vice versa where you're in your key and go and touch them while they're in their alley.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by slijin

To be quite honest, this should be asked on the official FIRST Q&A so you can get a definitive answer.

It has been.

Game - The Game » Robot-Robot Interaction » G28
Q. What happens if there is a "Mirror" G28 foul where both robots are touching their respective alley, key or bridge? A. Both Robots will receive a Foul or Technical-Foul as appropriate


Short answer: Fault doesn't matter, it's a foul on both robots.

[lcoreyl]

Originally Posted by ethen155

Okay, so we were woundering if you are in the key, and your opponet is in their ally, and you touch, who get penilized?

Make sure to read the Q&A forum to find the official answers to questions like this.

https://frc-qa.usfirst.org/Questions.php

in this case both robots get a foul.

[beiju]

Rule [G44]: "Generally, a rule violation by an Alliance that was directly caused by actions of the opposing Alliance will not be penalized. Rule [G28] is an exception to this rule."

The letter of this rule states [G28] as an exception, but the intent of that seems to be to prevent a defensive robot from blocking one in the key/alley by positioning itself so that it will get in the way, but not actually touching the offensive robot. I expect that in reality, only the robot initiating contact will be penalized — if this ever actually happens.

[chi-town-biker]

I've asked this elsewhere but I add the question on this thread too.

From Q & A we know that if a robot on the key and another in the alley touch, both alliances will score a foul. But a defensive robot may want to keep bumping the shooter not to run up the score but just to keep the shooter from making a successful shot. After all, the shooter can always move to the other side of the key. Does this violate <G45> (i.e. exploiting <G28>)?

Personally I don't think it violates <G45> because if it did the GDC would have said key trumps alley. What's your take?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by chi-town-biker

I've asked this elsewhere but I add the question on this thread too.

From Q & A we know that if a robot on the key and another in the alley touch, both alliances will score a foul. But a defensive robot may want to keep bumping the shooter not to run up the score but just to keep the shooter from making a successful shot. After all, the shooter can always move to the other side of the key. Does this violate <G45> (i.e. exploiting <G28>)?

Personally I don't think it violates <G45> because if it did the GDC would have said key trumps alley. What's your take?

My take is that it's a referee's discretion. This is a question that the GDC probably won't answer, as it is highly situationally dependent.

[farmersvilleRob]

I still don't see how this would ever happen ever.... It's way past the max appendage rule and what would both bots be doing anyway?

[chi-town-biker]

The key and the alley are 59" apart at their closest point. Two 38" robots can touch and also be in both the key and alley. For a defensive robot, it's the best location to "harrass" a robot shooting from the key. I don't know how effective a tactic it is but it could keep a shooter from making a basket or two. For a game so heavily weighted in favor of offense, I'm wondering what defenses are available.

[PayneTrain]

The sweet spot of the key is the center at the flat end anyway, and I don't see opponents in the alleyways getting over there instantaneously.

Regardless, it's a 3-point-foul on both teams, so to me, it's not a match-defining strategy.