3 robots designs I hope to see this season

[EricH]

Originally Posted by apalrd

and if you are ever in the opposing alley it's a penalty under [G28], even if you were collecting balls)

Palardy, I don't see anything in [G28] that bars entry to the Key or Alley (Bridge is covered elsewhere).

[G28]
Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.
Violation: Foul; Technical-Foul for purposeful, consequential contact.

And neither does the GDC:

Game - The Game » Robot-Robot Interaction » G28
Q. Can a robot (that is not in violation of G28) touch or enter the key or alley of the other alliance?
A. Yes

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by farmersvilleRob

You can shoot from anywhere and make it every time with math
And we did until we weighed pros and cons with prototyping and mathematical analysis. Balancing will be a huge challenge considering its worth a lot of points (relatively) and the boards are pretty small for 3 bots. Also, collecting off the ground doesn't necessarily mean something that runs along the ground. Gripping on the holes is considered grappling as well if suction cups are, so I would avoid even touching them. Draw a spreadsheet to find the needed acceleration and muzzle velocity for even 20 feet away. It's some rather big numbers for that 11.2 oz ball. You can block an alley easy if you just rolled over there in the last half minute "collecting basketballs". And when threading the needle, I would rather have my robot thread a needle than a driver. Like a sewing machine versus a hand sewer. Though the hand stitching may look prettier, the sewing machine proves a better more precise, versatile, dependable stitch.

I'm pretty curious as to these "rather large" numbers you're coming up with, because right now you're making it sound like my tape measure was actually measuring in centimeters when I fired a ball 20ft on saturday with some rough cut plywood, poor bushings, a very skewed chain run, and 2 fisher price motors powering a single traction wheel.....

I believe after your first regional, you'll appreciate what BJC and artdutra are saying a little bit more. No offense, but they have a combined 14 years of FIRST experience. If you think 20ft is hard with a poof ball, you should of seen the teams doing it with a 12lb track ball in 2008....

[farmersvilleRob]

Originally Posted by Tom I

Look I really hate chewing someone out on this forum, I feel that it's destructive to the FIRST environment and goes against Gracious Professionalism, but you sir are off your rocker. Do you really doubt the ability to throw 3 poof balls at the same time?? FIRST Team 95, the Grasshoppers, seemed to have no problems launching 6 balls in the air at the same time in 2006... and that was with 2 FP's... Seriously, I think a lot of your opinions are exactly that, opinions. Please trust the people who've "been there and done it" when it comes to what is feasible. Stating your ideas is wonderful and encouraged, but bashing others' opinions is not GP and over the line. Please back off.

GP? When ideas clash ideas clash, and there's nothing wrong with arguing about designs. And everything on here can be considered opinions considering I seriously doubt anyone has a fully functioning robot. Also, your "been there done that" idea shouldn't make that big of an impact in the game since it's not the same game. I'm actually not bashing other's opinions either. Criticism means pointing out the flaws which is more important than pointing out the pros. It's about weighing the flaws that provides the necessary modifications or what have you. If I were to post a question about my design ideas or my design, I would rather have flaws pointed out than encouragement.

[farmersvilleRob]

Originally Posted by Thermal

I'm pretty curious as to these "rather large" numbers you're coming up with, because right now you're making it sound like my tape measure was actually measuring in centimeters when I fired a ball 20ft on saturday with some rough cut plywood, poor bushings, a very skewed chain run, and 2 fisher price motors powering a single traction wheel.....

I believe after your first regional, you'll appreciate what BJC and artdutra are saying a little bit more. No offense, but they have a combined 14 years of FIRST experience. If you think 20ft is hard with a poof ball, you should of seen the teams doing it with a 12lb track ball in 2008....

The math from my team's calculations says a 20 foot shot requires a ball to be traveling at 30.008 ft per sec. and up to 60 feet it's 49.004 ft per second.

[Thermal]

Originally Posted by farmersvilleRob

The math from my team's calculations says a 20 foot shot requires a ball to be traveling at 30.008 ft per sec. and up to 60 feet it's 49.004 ft per second.

And what makes 30fps hard to reach? Your robot already travels at 12-15 and it weighs 135lb...

Originally Posted by farmersvilleRob

GP? When ideas clash ideas clash, and there's nothing wrong with arguing about designs. And everything on here can be considered opinions considering I seriously doubt anyone has a fully functioning robot. Also, your "been there done that" idea shouldn't make that big of an impact in the game since it's not the same game. I'm actually not bashing other's opinions either. Criticism means pointing out the flaws which is more important than pointing out the pros. It's about weighing the flaws that provides the necessary modifications or what have you. If I were to post a question about my design ideas or my design, I would rather have flaws pointed out than encouragement.

Not to butt-in on the conversation, but this is getting way off-topic for terrible reasons. If this was an intelligent, well-developed conversation that actually benefitted people, then I wouldn't mind. However, that's not the case. I don't know how much engineering experience you have or how good you are at math/science, but everything you have been saying in this forum has been incorrect on all regards. Furthermore, you are arguing (yes, arguing, don't say you're not) with a few very highly esteemed people on Chief Delphi. These people are not only great engineers, but also people who know what they're talking about. So I ask that you please act graciously professional here, and respect everyone. CD is a fun place, but can be frustrating if you make it.

I'm not saying you're a bad guy/girl, however this is just a heads up. Double, if not triple check what you're about to say before you say it. Sometimes it can stop you from saying things you would have really regretted.

Thanks for listening, and good luck this season!

[farmersvilleRob]

Originally Posted by Thermal

And what makes 30fps hard to reach? Your robot already travels at 12-15 and it weighs 135lb...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8U9u...eature=related

So this is basically a direct drive with 2 CIM motors, the chunkiest of the chunky, and at the maximum distance angle (45 degrees) he is hitting 23 feet. That's far enough to also cause more problems. (note the editing might not have been for just collecting the ball). And it doesn't seem to include the ball after ball wheel slow down either.

Originally Posted by farmersvilleRob

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l8U9u...eature=related

So this is basically a direct drive with 2 CIM motors, the chunkiest of the chunky, and at the maximum distance angle (45 degrees) he is hitting 23 feet. That's far enough to also cause more problems. (note the editing might not have been for just collecting the ball). And it doesn't seem to include the ball after ball wheel slow down either.

We did something similar (not saying exact though, team secret ), and now have balls shooting out about 58-60 feet. No gearing, 100% legal.

[Tom I]

So getting back to the OP, let's actually imagine these three robots actually coming to fruition and 3 teams out there actually fitting the predictions very closely. I think we'd all agree if they were on the same alliance, I sure as heck wouldn't wanna face them!! But how do you think they'd fair in the competition alone?

With bot 1, honestly I think that's what we're going to see the most of. A reliable close range shooter seems like a flexible design that can play the game very well. I think it'll have no problems playing alone or with any combination of other robots.
Bot 2 would definitely be impressive, but I feel as if defending teams could potentially learn it's weaknesses early in the competition and exploit them from then on out (for example, starve their ball supply somehow?). If that were to happen, the effectiveness of the design would go down as the competition progressed.
Bot 3 is definitely an interesting option, as it is a potentially "easy" concept for a new team to pursue and still be a very valuable alliance partner and competitor. I feel as if, however, unless they have a set alliance with a bot 1 and bot 2 going into a competition, I doubt they'd want to hide their ability. They'd probably want to show it off well and early to gain notoriety and increase their chances of being pick for an alliance, if they're not high seeded to begin with.

If you can't tell, I love this kind of theory-robotics! Of course, I also love the real world magic that teams make happen, and I can't wait for week 1 at GSR to see the designs that do get built. Good luck to all!

[Alex.q]

Originally Posted by farmersvilleRob

You can shoot from anywhere and make it every time with math
And we did until we weighed pros and cons with prototyping and mathematical analysis. Balancing will be a huge challenge considering its worth a lot of points (relatively) and the boards are pretty small for 3 bots. Also, collecting off the ground doesn't necessarily mean something that runs along the ground. Gripping on the holes is considered grappling as well if suction cups are, so I would avoid even touching them. Draw a spreadsheet to find the needed acceleration and muzzle velocity for even 20 feet away. It's some rather big numbers for that 11.2 oz ball. You can block an alley easy if you just rolled over there in the last half minute "collecting basketballs". And when threading the needle, I would rather have my robot thread a needle than a driver. Like a sewing machine versus a hand sewer. Though the hand stitching may look prettier, the sewing machine proves a better more precise, versatile, dependable stitch.

Even if you are jsut collecting balls, I believe contact in the alley is a 9pt penalty. Fairly substatial.

[Katie_UPS]

I wanna one-up the half court shooter. I wanna see a robot that can line up in front of the feeder station and pitch-machine top hoop goals consistently. I'm not well-versed on motor math, so I have no idea how feasible this is, but its something I'd like to see.

[qwerty]

Originally Posted by Tom I

Bot 2 would definitely be impressive, but I feel as if defending teams could potentially learn it's weaknesses early in the competition and exploit them from then on out (for example, starve their ball supply somehow?). If that were to happen, the effectiveness of the design would go down as the competition progressed.

But the only way to starve it from balls is to not score because the balls that go to the robot would come from the corral. That is obviously not a thing you would want to be doing. And because the lane is protected, you can not play defense in that area on the robot without being penalized.

[Tom I]

Originally Posted by qwerty

But the only way to starve it from balls is to not score because the balls that go to the robot would come from the corral. That is obviously not a thing you would want to be doing. And because the lane is protected, you can not play defense in that area on the robot without being penalized.

Right, I get that. But let's say this robot is parked right next to the bridge in the alley. That's almost 20 feet of open alley from where the balls are entered onto the field to their robot. Conceivably, a quick bot could slip in and out, stealing balls bouncing down the lane without being touched by other robots, before they get to Bot 2. I dunno, I'm just playing this out as a worst case scenario. My point is, there is no perfect solution to a FIRST game. If there was, everyone would do it! I'm betting that some team would find a creative way to "defend" somehow, and once that's known, every team would want to be sure to cover them if they're on opposing alliances. Again, this is all "theory robotics" with potential designs.

[Hawiian Cadder]

There will definitely be some variation of a point blank range high level scoring robot. I think that another type of robot which could be neat is one where another robot is able to drive on top of it, and then both balance as a unit. because many robots will be able to drive over the bump and up the ramp i could see this being viable with a ramp which lowered down outside the bumpers.

[Tom I]

Originally Posted by Hawiian Cadder

There will definitely be some variation of a point blank range high level scoring robot. I think that another type of robot which could be neat is one where another robot is able to drive on top of it, and then both balance as a unit. because many robots will be able to drive over the bump and up the ramp i could see this being viable with a ramp which lowered down outside the bumpers.

Balancing on top of another robot... now THAT's creative! haha we saw that in 2007 with Rack 'n' Roll. My only thing with that is I would soooooooooooo not trust anyone to be able to balance our robot atop theirs, navigate a 20 degree incline, and risk a 1' drop on either side of a balance teeter-totter... I think I'll stick with balancing the old fashioned way. But man that would be something to see!