Bumpers and Team Number

[vladsfl]

Rookie team question: I believe we need to put team number on all sides of the robot, but what if we have the opening on one side.

Also if we have opening on the side any suggestions on constructing a bumper that can be easily changed as required?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by vladsfl

Rookie team question: I believe we need to put team number on all sides of the robot, but what if we have the opening on one side.

Then you put the number where the opening isn't. There is also some discussion on whether it's legal to put the number on both bumpers on the open side.

Also if we have opening on the side any suggestions on constructing a bumper that can be easily changed as required?

Build both sections for a quick change.

Remember, the rules define the requirements. Read them carefully, and they will tell you what you need to know about this.

[SenorZ]

As per [R35] you need your # at "four locations at approximately 90° intervals around the perimeter of the Robot." So if you have an opening, you still need 8" from each corner/vertex. Just put your team number next to the corner on all four sides!

[Cal578]

[R35]

Teams shall display their team number on the Bumpers in four locations at approximately 90° intervals around the
perimeter of the Robot. The numerals must be at least 4 in. high, at least ¾ in. in stroke width, and be either white in
color or outlined in white. Team numbers must be clearly visible from a distance of not less than 100 ft, so that judges,
referees, and announcers can easily identify competing Robots.

Do you interpret "four locations" to mean "exactly 4 - no more, no less"?

Our team is building a U-shaped rectangular frame, opening in the middle of the front (which is 27"). I think it would look good to put our team number on both sides of the front opening, as well once each on the left, right, and back, for a total of 5 numbers. I believe this meets the spirit and intent of the rule, "...so that judges, referees, and announcers [and spectators] can easily identify competing Robots." (I added the part in italics).

I've just signed up for the Q&A, but apparently I need to wait before I can post a question. When I click the "Team Questions" tab, it says "Your request is in pending state".

[Cal578]

Looks like team 1619 just posted exactly the question for [R35] that I wanted. The answer is still pending, but I'm following it.

[SteveGPage]

Originally Posted by Cal578

I've just signed up for the Q&A, but apparently I need to wait before I can post a question. When I click the "Team Questions" tab, it says "Your request is in pending state".

There are two types of accounts in the Q&A forum. The first is a team account, ie. FRC0836. The password for that account can be found in TIMS. That account already exists, and is the account you must use to ask a question. The second type of account is a personal account, where individuals can sign up to see and follow questions, but not ask questions. Once you create a personal account, the team admin must go in and authenticate your request to follow and see the team questions - that's why you are getting the message you get when you click on Team Questions. If you haven't had someone sign in as the team admin, you will need that done before they can ask the question and authenticate your account.

[Cal578]

Thanks, Steve, that is very helpful. Too bad the message on the Q&A wasn't a little more intuitive. Anyway, I will find out who on my team can take care of that.

[jimwick]

We have had good luck in attaching the sections of bumpers at the corners with metal angles, then lowering them as a unit onto the robot. We usually use the KOP frame and attach the bumpers to them with small angles. Attaching sections at the corners helps stabilize the bumpers.

This year, with a gap in the front, we will try to put a temporary brace across the front, just hold while mounting.

[pribusin]

We have the same issue, large front opening. Our concern is the lettering size requirement. If we were to put our team number on one side of the opening only, the bumper size would not be large enough. We are going to split the team number in half. Hope that doesn't violate the rule. Looking forward to seeing an answer on this.

[Nate Laverdure]

Originally Posted by pribusin

We are going to split the team number in half. Hope that doesn't violate the rule. Looking forward to seeing an answer on this.

There already is one. In the Q&A under R35:

Per [R35] team numbers must be "clearly visible from a distance of not less than 100 ft, so that judges, referees, and announcers can easily identify competing Robots." Thus they may not be obscured in any way (disconnected, out of order, rotated, upside-down, mirror imaged, etc).

[IceStorm]

I'd watch out splitting the number in half per the QandA.

Q. We have a u-shaped robot, so will have split front bumpers. Can we split the our numbers; say "33" on the right and the "52" on the left or do all of the numbers need to be on one side of the robot? It may be a tight fit with the new number size criteria. FRC3352 2012-01-19
A. Per [R35], team numbers must be clearly visible. This means that they may not be inverted, obscured, fragmented, upside down, etc.

Were in the same boat as everyone else. I really hope that they ease up on this ruling. We've got the backs for the bumpers cut but have hesitated doing anything with the fabric until closer to the actual stop build date.

[nighterfighter]

All the teams attending Peachtree received this email from the LRI...

TL;DR version- Having split numbers is NOT allowed (yet). Meaning that 4 digit teams are going to have a hard time.

Peachtree Regional FIRST Teams,As we near the end of the Build Period, I want to make all teams competing at the Peachtree aware of what may be an issue for some teams. Bumpers frequently present issues during the inspection process – and this year perhaps more so as the result of some specific rule requirements. In particular, the requirement for a minimum bumper segment of 8” appears to be causing some confusion for teams, based on the Q&A activity. Also, there appears to be confusion on the proper placement of the required team numbers. The Rules are very explicit in the size, style, and placement of the team’s identifying numbers, and with the need for Referees and field personnel to be able to clearly and quickly identify a robot, these will be enforced.One issue has arisen concerning these requirements. The 8” bumper segment does NOT allow for 4 digit team numbers to fit. The Game Design Committee has been asked, in the Q&A, about the acceptability of “splitting” a team’s number between multiple bumper sections to allow a maximum opening for ball collection. They have repeatedly responded with requiring the team number to “not be fragmented” and have determined that a “split” number will NOT be acceptable. The Inspectors have contacted the GDC and explained the issue but until a rules change is issued in a team update, we will be enforcing the current GDC ruling at Peachtree – and I would expect at other events as well.I have attached an extract of the Q&A that addresses these issues for your information. Q&A rulings are considered “official” – Chief Delphi comments and answers are not.
Please send your questions directly to Jeff Rees at [hidden]
Regards,
Jeff Rees
Lead Robot Inspector
Peachtree Regional

Here is the relevant Q&A answer-

Q. We have a u-shaped robot, so will have split front bumpers. Can we split the our
numbers; say "33" on the right and the "52" on the left or do all of the numbers need to be
on one side of the robot? It may be a tight fit with the new number size criteria.

A. Per [R35], team numbers must be clearly visible. This means that they may not be inverted,
obscured, fragmented, upside down, etc.

[IKE]

There were several questions in the Q&A about trying to fit 4 numbers on the minimum bumper length. Attached is a template that I hope will help some teams work through the issue presenting legible numbers.

Legible numbers are important for getting recognition by field staff, judges, and scouting. Every year, there are a couple of teams that I see minimal data on from my scouts because the numbers are difficult to read.

Bumper Numbering Template by IKE

[Cal578]

The minimum length of the bumper is 8 inches along the frame. Add in the thickness of the plywood and noodle, and you'll have 11.25 inches from the outside corner to the inside edge of the bumper.

The digits need to be 4 inches high, and 3/4 inch stroke width. There is no specification on the digit width, except that it must be clearly legible. So pick a simple font, don't put too much space in between digits, and it should fit. Our team is a 3-digit number, so we have room to spare. 4-digit teams will probably need to use almost all available space.

[JesseK]

The manual is supposed to be simpler this year, yet this is a prime example of how vague rules overlap to derive obfuscated requirements.

Hey GDC, answer me this:

• Why can't we simply not put numbers on bumpers so long as the numbers are clear and visible from 4 sides?
• What specifically is so important to the GDC that the GDC mandate numbers go specifically on the bumpers?
• Why not post a color template for all teams to print off and post on 4 sides?
• What's going to happen when the team #'s hit 10,000? Are rookie teams really going have their designs that much more hindered compared to old veteran teams with only 3 digits or lots of 1's in their team number?