Go to Post It is going to be a water game. Sorry, I thought everybody knew that. :ahh: - FrankJ [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 17:26
bdbayes bdbayes is offline
Captain
FRC #2927 (Pi Rho Techs)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 75
bdbayes is a jewel in the roughbdbayes is a jewel in the roughbdbayes is a jewel in the rough
FRC 2012: Update #3

The third team update is now available online. Team Update #3
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 17:49
Eugene Fang's Avatar
Eugene Fang Eugene Fang is offline
The Blue Alliance
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Bay Area, CA -> Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 772
Eugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

"each end of the Bumper must be rigidly attached to the Frame Perimeter" (emphasis mine)

What's that supposed to mean?


Does that mean bumpers like this are illegal?

[----<attachment>---------------<attachment>----]


And that these are legal?

[<attachment>-----------------------<attachment>]
__________________
Eugene Fang
2010 Silicon Valley Regional Dean's List Finalist

Various FLL Teams - Student (2000-2006), Mentor (2007-2010)
FRC Team 604 - Student (2007-2010), Mentor/Remote Advisor (2011-2015)
FRC Team 1323 - Mentor/Remote Advisor (2011-2014)

The Blue Alliance | TBA GameDay | TBA Android App

Last edited by Eugene Fang : 17-01-2012 at 17:52.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 17:55
bdbayes bdbayes is offline
Captain
FRC #2927 (Pi Rho Techs)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Tacoma, WA
Posts: 75
bdbayes is a jewel in the roughbdbayes is a jewel in the roughbdbayes is a jewel in the rough
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

That seems to be true according to the rules.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EugeneF View Post
"each end of the Bumper must be rigidly attached to the Frame Perimeter" (emphasis mine)

What's that supposed to mean?


Does that mean bumpers like this are illegal?

[----<attachment>---------------<attachment>----]


And that these are legal?

[<attachment>-----------------------<attachment>]
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 17:57
sdcantrell56's Avatar
sdcantrell56 sdcantrell56 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Sean
FRC #2415 (Wired Cats)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 1,038
sdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond reputesdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond reputesdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond reputesdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond reputesdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond reputesdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond reputesdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond reputesdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond reputesdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond reputesdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond reputesdcantrell56 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

This would seem to make pulling off a WCD bumper mount much more of a pain. Why the GDC cwon't leave designing structurally sound bumpers up to the teams is such a great question.
__________________

Mentor 2415
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 18:02
jason701802's Avatar
jason701802 jason701802 is offline
Registered User
FRC #0753 (The High Desert Droids)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Oregon/Univ. of Southern Calif.
Posts: 234
jason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant future
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

It seems they are trying to avoid allowing bumpers that attached only at the corner and/or leaving unsupported ends, although specific requirements need to be set out to leave out any ambiguity.
__________________
Jason
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 18:04
Steven Donow Steven Donow is offline
Registered User
AKA: Scooby
no team
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 1,335
Steven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond reputeSteven Donow has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

Also of note is an update to the administrative section of the manual:

Quote:
ADMINISTRATIVE
Awards
Sections 6.6.3 and 6.6.4 have been updated to include content (formerly “To be announced”).

Section 6.11, “FIRST Future Innovator Award presented by the Abbott Fund,” has been added.
FIRST Safety
Robot Carts
To protect team members from muscle strains and other injuries as they transport the robot between the pits and the competition area, we strongly recommend that team members use a cart. Please keep the following in mind:

Carts must be safe for cart operators, bystanders, and field personnel. A cart may be declared unsafe by the Field Supervisor, FTA, or Lead Robot Inspector. Carts declared unsafe must remain in the team pit area.
Carts must remain in the team pit area when not in use for robot transportation;
All carts should fit through a standard 30-inch door;
Wheels on the cart must not damage site flooring; and
Do not add music or other sound devices to the cart.
Put your team number on your cart so it can be identified by field personnel

Refer to the “FIRST Safety Manual” for robot lifting techniques. By practicing these safety techniques, your team members will also develop a quick, fluid routine.
The bolded part is what's highlighted in the update, AKA the added part.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 18:08
Eugene Fang's Avatar
Eugene Fang Eugene Fang is offline
The Blue Alliance
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Bay Area, CA -> Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 772
Eugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond reputeEugene Fang has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

Also, this makes the double C-shaped style of bumpers illegal too, no?

For those unfamiliar, they look like this: [ ] (Top view of robot) and usually the short lengths of the C are only attached to the frame at one point. The other side is supported by the edge of the long bumper.

This is very disappointing.
__________________
Eugene Fang
2010 Silicon Valley Regional Dean's List Finalist

Various FLL Teams - Student (2000-2006), Mentor (2007-2010)
FRC Team 604 - Student (2007-2010), Mentor/Remote Advisor (2011-2015)
FRC Team 1323 - Mentor/Remote Advisor (2011-2014)

The Blue Alliance | TBA GameDay | TBA Android App
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 18:17
waialua359's Avatar
waialua359 waialua359 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Glenn
FRC #0359 (Hawaiian Kids)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Waialua, HI
Posts: 3,316
waialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by EugeneF View Post
Also, this makes the double C-shaped style of bumpers illegal too, no?

For those unfamiliar, they look like this: [ ] (Top view of robot) and usually the short lengths of the C are only attached to the frame at one point. The other side is supported by the edge of the long bumper.

This is very disappointing.
I was a little confused as well.
Isnt the end of one side of a bumper unsupported when extended out to the depth of the other adjacent side?
I guess I know what they mean, ......its just the wording.
__________________

2016 Hawaii Regional #1 seed, IDesign, Safety Award
2016 NY Tech Valley Regional Champions, #1 seed, Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Lake Superior Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award, Dean's List
2015 FRC Worlds-Carver Division Champions
2015 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed.
2015 Australia Regional Champions, #2 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2015 Inland Empire Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2014 OZARK Mountain Brawl Champions, #1 seed.
2014 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, UL Safety Award
2014 Dallas Regional Champions, #1 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2014 Northern Lights Regional Champions, #1 seed, Entrepreneurship Award
2013 Championship Dean's List Winner
2013 Utah Regional Champion, #1 seed, KP&B Award, Deans List
2013 Boilermaker Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Lone Star Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Hawaii Regional Champions #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 18:22
nssheepster's Avatar
nssheepster nssheepster is offline
Da' Rule Man
AKA: Nik Shepherd
FRC #0174 (Arctic Warriors)
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Liverpool, NY
Posts: 107
nssheepster is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

Perhaps ambiguity should be able to be left. If the rule says, don't let your bumpers fall off, it's kinda common sense to build bumpers that won't fall off. Right? We inspire and recognize science and technology, but sometimes, common sense seems to be forgotten.......
__________________
In theory, this should work.
In practice, not so much.
F.I.R.S.T. = For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology
So really, it's F.I.A.R.O.S.A.T.?
Nah, that doesn't sound as good.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 18:31
waialua359's Avatar
waialua359 waialua359 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Glenn
FRC #0359 (Hawaiian Kids)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Waialua, HI
Posts: 3,316
waialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by nssheepster View Post
Perhaps ambiguity should be able to be left. If the rule says, don't let your bumpers fall off, it's kinda common sense to build bumpers that won't fall off. Right? We inspire and recognize science and technology, but sometimes, common sense seems to be forgotten.......
While what you are saying is absolutely true, I've been in enough regionals (20+), where not following the letter of the law, can prevent you from passing inspection.
Without diagram 4-3, it would have been quite ambiguious.
__________________

2016 Hawaii Regional #1 seed, IDesign, Safety Award
2016 NY Tech Valley Regional Champions, #1 seed, Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Lake Superior Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award, Dean's List
2015 FRC Worlds-Carver Division Champions
2015 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed.
2015 Australia Regional Champions, #2 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2015 Inland Empire Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2014 OZARK Mountain Brawl Champions, #1 seed.
2014 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, UL Safety Award
2014 Dallas Regional Champions, #1 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2014 Northern Lights Regional Champions, #1 seed, Entrepreneurship Award
2013 Championship Dean's List Winner
2013 Utah Regional Champion, #1 seed, KP&B Award, Deans List
2013 Boilermaker Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Lone Star Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Hawaii Regional Champions #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 18:45
JB987 JB987 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Joe Barry
FRC #0987 (HIGH ROLLERS)
Team Role: Coach
 
Join Date: May 2006
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: LAS VEGAS
Posts: 1,177
JB987 has a reputation beyond reputeJB987 has a reputation beyond reputeJB987 has a reputation beyond reputeJB987 has a reputation beyond reputeJB987 has a reputation beyond reputeJB987 has a reputation beyond reputeJB987 has a reputation beyond reputeJB987 has a reputation beyond reputeJB987 has a reputation beyond reputeJB987 has a reputation beyond reputeJB987 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by waialua359 View Post
I was a little confused as well.
Isnt the end of one side of a bumper unsupported when extended out to the depth of the other adjacent side?
I guess I know what they mean, ......its just the wording.
Remember, it is the wood backing that must be supported and attached as specified. This update doesn't affect the unsupported extensions of pool noodle/fabric that you are referring to.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 18:48
David Guzman's Avatar
David Guzman David Guzman is offline
Registered User
AKA: Dave
FRC #1251 (The Techtigers)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Rookie Year: 2004
Location: Broward, FL
Posts: 522
David Guzman has a brilliant futureDavid Guzman has a brilliant futureDavid Guzman has a brilliant futureDavid Guzman has a brilliant futureDavid Guzman has a brilliant futureDavid Guzman has a brilliant futureDavid Guzman has a brilliant futureDavid Guzman has a brilliant futureDavid Guzman has a brilliant futureDavid Guzman has a brilliant futureDavid Guzman has a brilliant future
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

The question then becomes: how close to the end of the bumper is the end of the bumper?

This is slightly annoying...
__________________
Team 1251 The Techtigers
2010 FL Regional Winner (BIG thanks to 86 and 1612)
2009 FL Regional Finalist (BIG thanks to 79 and 744)
2008 FL Regional Winner, FL GM Industrial Design, SC GM Industrial Design
2007 FL Regional Winner, FL GM Industrial Design, Palmetto Regional Finalist, Palmetto Motorola Quality.
2006 Palmetto Regional Winner, Daimler Chrysler Team Spirit Award
2005 FL Regional Judges Award, FL Regional 3rd seeded and finalist, Palmetto Regional Xerox Creativity Award, Palmetto Regional 1st seeded and finalist
2004 UCF Regional Rookie All-star Award
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 18:58
waialua359's Avatar
waialua359 waialua359 is offline
Mentor
AKA: Glenn
FRC #0359 (Hawaiian Kids)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Waialua, HI
Posts: 3,316
waialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond reputewaialua359 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by JB987 View Post
Remember, it is the wood backing that must be supported and attached as specified. This update doesn't affect the unsupported extensions of pool noodle/fabric that you are referring to.
__________________

2016 Hawaii Regional #1 seed, IDesign, Safety Award
2016 NY Tech Valley Regional Champions, #1 seed, Innovation in Controls Award
2016 Lake Superior Regional Champions, #1 seed, Quality Award, Dean's List
2015 FRC Worlds-Carver Division Champions
2015 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed.
2015 Australia Regional Champions, #2 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2015 Inland Empire Regional Champions, #1 seed, Industrial Design Award
2014 OZARK Mountain Brawl Champions, #1 seed.
2014 Hawaii Regional Champions, #1 seed, UL Safety Award
2014 Dallas Regional Champions, #1 seed, Engineering Excellence Award
2014 Northern Lights Regional Champions, #1 seed, Entrepreneurship Award
2013 Championship Dean's List Winner
2013 Utah Regional Champion, #1 seed, KP&B Award, Deans List
2013 Boilermaker Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Lone Star Regional Champion, #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
2012 Hawaii Regional Champions #1 seed, Motorola Quality Award
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 19:05
Aren Siekmeier's Avatar
Aren Siekmeier Aren Siekmeier is online now
on walkabout
FRC #2175 (The Fighting Calculators)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: 대한민국
Posts: 735
Aren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond reputeAren Siekmeier has a reputation beyond repute
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

It seems to me that they mean simply that the ends of the bumper must be supported by the frame (an exception to the general rule of 8" unsupported sections). How can anyone determine whether or not a fastener holding a bumper on is "at the end" or not? Where is the line drawn? 1 inch, 2 inches? And, structurally, why would it matter, assuming the end of the bumper is supported? However they do not say supported, they say attached, so we'll have to wait for clarification.

Perhaps they mean if you do have an unsupported 8" segment, the last supported segment on each end must be attached somewhere (and there must be no unsupported segment beyond it).
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-01-2012, 19:19
jason701802's Avatar
jason701802 jason701802 is offline
Registered User
FRC #0753 (The High Desert Droids)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Oregon/Univ. of Southern Calif.
Posts: 234
jason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant futurejason701802 has a brilliant future
Re: FRC 2012: Update #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by nssheepster View Post
Perhaps ambiguity should be able to be left. If the rule says, don't let your bumpers fall off, it's kinda common sense to build bumpers that won't fall off. Right? We inspire and recognize science and technology, but sometimes, common sense seems to be forgotten.......
That would be better than it is now. Ambiguity isn't bad as long as it doesn't mean a set of bumpers could fail inspection based upon nothing more than semantics (is the end of the bumper the terminal edge? is it the last 3in of bumper? etc.) or that a superior set of bumpers (vs. a set that passes) fails just because its supports are a 1/2in from the end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by compwiztobe View Post
Perhaps they mean if you do have an unsupported 8" segment, the last supported segment on each end must be attached somewhere (and there must be no unsupported segment beyond it).
That would be the most logical requirement to me, I hope, although somewhat doubt, that's what they mean.
__________________
Jason

Last edited by jason701802 : 17-01-2012 at 19:21.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:50.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi