FAHA: Some of our mentors have forgotten that FRC isn't about the robot.

[Bharat Nain]

Sometimes students ask for more involvement in the robot design and build process and don't get it. What advice can you offer this FIRST-a-holic in talking to their mentors?

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Hello everyone, After having a discussion with some of the other student leaders of the FRC team I'm on, we all agree that the mentors are only focused on the robot and aren't letting the students design and build the robot, do any math/physics involving robot design, or do any fabrication. Instead of letting the students decide where they would benefit the team, people have been placed seemingly at random on tasks. For example, I harp on drivetrain design and have devoted many hours of my life to optimizing the drivetrain that the team has come up with. I was placed on the CAD/Integration/Communication team and the drivetrain was redesigned to be made out of the kitbot and scrap wood. I feel like our mentors are not acting in the spirit of FIRST and are only looking to shoot the students down.

Thank you for hearing me out on my concerns, Any ideas to help us (the students) let the mentors know that we feel this way would be greatly appreciated.

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FIRST-a-holics Anonymous mailbox is a place to share your concerns about your FIRST experience anonymously. It is the perfect place if you just want someone to listen, or ask for advice when you don’t know what to do. Submit your letters today at the FIRST-a-holics Anonymous mailbox forum. If you wish to respond to this thread anonymously, please PM Bharat Nain or Beth Sweet with your response and thread title.

[Hobson]

I don't know the dynamics or politics of the mentors on your team. They all seem different. Do you have a teacher sponsor? On the two teams I've been a part of, and as a teacher sponsor myself, the teachers are commonly the ones you can talk to about these issues.

If you don't have a teacher sponsor or they aren't in a position to help, perhaps a team meeting called by the student officers to iron out team priorities. Is the teams focus to win or to teach as much as possible?

Mentor involvement is necessary for you guys to learn, and on some occasions that does mean that they would need to complete a task. The students should never be left out of that process.

I hope you find a way to get this solved.

[EricH]

This is a tough one. There is no rule that says that mentors can't make those decisions, unless you have a team handbook.

I think you need to have an all-team meeting. The sooner the better. As a team, you'll need to discuss mentor roles and student roles. As a group of students, not as individuals, you need to politely talk to the mentors. Maybe they don't realize that you're feeling the way you are about your assignments within the team. Maybe they actually do have a reason for how the team has been assigned.

You may also want to bring a few of the mentor resources found at http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/mentoring to your mentors' attention.

If your mentors don't listen at an all-team meeting, then you should get parents involved, if they aren't already. Same strategy--just have the parents do the talking with the mentors.

You really need to have a team handbook that outlines the roles of students and mentors; if you don't have one, you may want to get one quickly (though offseason is better for working on one; a simple one-page "Mentor/Student Contract" will suffice for the duration of the season if possible).

If you really need a drastic move, then let mentors do all the work (which is what they seem to want based on your post), both in your shop and at competition. This includes attempting to drive the robot; the rules don't allow them to do that (this move requires no students at competition, or none willing to drive the robot for a few matches or until the students are allowed to get their hands in the robot). I don't recommend this unless the mentors just won't listen at all. It'll be hard on both the students and the mentors; however, I think it would get the mentors' attention. Especially if the students returned to work on the robot when they got the chance to work on it.

[pilum40]

As a teacher-coach, it is sometimes difficult to get the more type A mentors to back off and allow the team to make errors, not make time deadlines, and self pressurize. As adults and engineers/teachers, we like things done right and sometimes that means taking the initiative and doing it right ourselves. I've had to completely hands off this year and manage the logistics, income-outgo since our school has a very traditional accounting system, and manage the personalities. It's almost impossible at times. I agree with the quote below. FIRST mentors walk a thin line IMHO, if they don't share enough of their expertise, teams fail. if they become overbearing and directive, teams fail. It looks as if it is way past time for the teacher sponsor to step in and say "that's enough". The team may lose a mentor or two but sometimes that's not a bad thing longer-term. It may come to the point in which the teacher-coach may have to ask a mentor to step away from the team. I've had to do that but that is an adult to adult conversation that should be done away from the team. No offense implied but that's just an organizational issue to me. I have no problem firing mentors that treat students poorly. I would definitely bring the parents into this ASAP as well. You will need to reorganize your team quickly. Perhaps a parent or set of parents can fill the gap for logistics allowing the teacher-coach to work (if they have time...teaching school is a 24/7 job these days). I've learned to be a better coach by applying my 40+ years of futbol/soccer experience. The best coach I ever had taught us tactics and skills during the week and would sit down and say nothing during the match. At half time, he would give us three things to fix...three things only. We had to do it. He would return to the bench for the second half and give us his views after the game. I've taken this to heart with FIRST Robotics tam members. It's ALL ABOUT YOU...NOT ME! I WIN WHEN YOU SUCCEED. I LOSE IF YOU DO NOT LEARN HOW TO PERSEVERE VIA ADVERSITY PLUS BUILD A SOLUTION THAT FACILITATES YOUR SUCCESS!!! Anything else is the wrong reason for a coach or mentor to work with this program. Good Luck...this will be a sticky wicket!
Steve Miller
Coach FIRST FRC Team 3355

Originally Posted by EricH

This is a tough one. There is no rule that says that mentors can't make those decisions, unless you have a team handbook.

I think you need to have an all-team meeting. The sooner the better. As a team, you'll need to discuss mentor roles and student roles. As a group of students, not as individuals, you need to politely talk to the mentors. Maybe they don't realize that you're feeling the way you are about your assignments within the team. Maybe they actually do have a reason for how the team has been assigned.

You may also want to bring a few of the mentor resources found at http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/mentoring to your mentors' attention.

If your mentors don't listen at an all-team meeting, then you should get parents involved, if they aren't already. Same strategy--just have the parents do the talking with the mentors.

You really need to have a team handbook that outlines the roles of students and mentors; if you don't have one, you may want to get one quickly (though offseason is better for working on one; a simple one-page "Mentor/Student Contract" will suffice for the duration of the season if possible).

If you really need a drastic move, then let mentors do all the work (which is what they seem to want based on your post), both in your shop and at competition. This includes attempting to drive the robot; the rules don't allow them to do that (this move requires no students at competition, or none willing to drive the robot for a few matches or until the students are allowed to get their hands in the robot). I don't recommend this unless the mentors just won't listen at all. It'll be hard on both the students and the mentors; however, I think it would get the mentors' attention. Especially if the students returned to work on the robot when they got the chance to work on it.