FAHA: Some of our mentors have forgotten that FRC isn't about the robot.

[EricH]

This is a tough one. There is no rule that says that mentors can't make those decisions, unless you have a team handbook.

I think you need to have an all-team meeting. The sooner the better. As a team, you'll need to discuss mentor roles and student roles. As a group of students, not as individuals, you need to politely talk to the mentors. Maybe they don't realize that you're feeling the way you are about your assignments within the team. Maybe they actually do have a reason for how the team has been assigned.

You may also want to bring a few of the mentor resources found at http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/mentoring to your mentors' attention.

If your mentors don't listen at an all-team meeting, then you should get parents involved, if they aren't already. Same strategy--just have the parents do the talking with the mentors.

You really need to have a team handbook that outlines the roles of students and mentors; if you don't have one, you may want to get one quickly (though offseason is better for working on one; a simple one-page "Mentor/Student Contract" will suffice for the duration of the season if possible).

If you really need a drastic move, then let mentors do all the work (which is what they seem to want based on your post), both in your shop and at competition. This includes attempting to drive the robot; the rules don't allow them to do that (this move requires no students at competition, or none willing to drive the robot for a few matches or until the students are allowed to get their hands in the robot). I don't recommend this unless the mentors just won't listen at all. It'll be hard on both the students and the mentors; however, I think it would get the mentors' attention. Especially if the students returned to work on the robot when they got the chance to work on it.

[pilum40]

As a teacher-coach, it is sometimes difficult to get the more type A mentors to back off and allow the team to make errors, not make time deadlines, and self pressurize. As adults and engineers/teachers, we like things done right and sometimes that means taking the initiative and doing it right ourselves. I've had to completely hands off this year and manage the logistics, income-outgo since our school has a very traditional accounting system, and manage the personalities. It's almost impossible at times. I agree with the quote below. FIRST mentors walk a thin line IMHO, if they don't share enough of their expertise, teams fail. if they become overbearing and directive, teams fail. It looks as if it is way past time for the teacher sponsor to step in and say "that's enough". The team may lose a mentor or two but sometimes that's not a bad thing longer-term. It may come to the point in which the teacher-coach may have to ask a mentor to step away from the team. I've had to do that but that is an adult to adult conversation that should be done away from the team. No offense implied but that's just an organizational issue to me. I have no problem firing mentors that treat students poorly. I would definitely bring the parents into this ASAP as well. You will need to reorganize your team quickly. Perhaps a parent or set of parents can fill the gap for logistics allowing the teacher-coach to work (if they have time...teaching school is a 24/7 job these days). I've learned to be a better coach by applying my 40+ years of futbol/soccer experience. The best coach I ever had taught us tactics and skills during the week and would sit down and say nothing during the match. At half time, he would give us three things to fix...three things only. We had to do it. He would return to the bench for the second half and give us his views after the game. I've taken this to heart with FIRST Robotics tam members. It's ALL ABOUT YOU...NOT ME! I WIN WHEN YOU SUCCEED. I LOSE IF YOU DO NOT LEARN HOW TO PERSEVERE VIA ADVERSITY PLUS BUILD A SOLUTION THAT FACILITATES YOUR SUCCESS!!! Anything else is the wrong reason for a coach or mentor to work with this program. Good Luck...this will be a sticky wicket!
Steve Miller
Coach FIRST FRC Team 3355

Originally Posted by EricH

This is a tough one. There is no rule that says that mentors can't make those decisions, unless you have a team handbook.

I think you need to have an all-team meeting. The sooner the better. As a team, you'll need to discuss mentor roles and student roles. As a group of students, not as individuals, you need to politely talk to the mentors. Maybe they don't realize that you're feeling the way you are about your assignments within the team. Maybe they actually do have a reason for how the team has been assigned.

You may also want to bring a few of the mentor resources found at http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprograms/frc/mentoring to your mentors' attention.

If your mentors don't listen at an all-team meeting, then you should get parents involved, if they aren't already. Same strategy--just have the parents do the talking with the mentors.

You really need to have a team handbook that outlines the roles of students and mentors; if you don't have one, you may want to get one quickly (though offseason is better for working on one; a simple one-page "Mentor/Student Contract" will suffice for the duration of the season if possible).

If you really need a drastic move, then let mentors do all the work (which is what they seem to want based on your post), both in your shop and at competition. This includes attempting to drive the robot; the rules don't allow them to do that (this move requires no students at competition, or none willing to drive the robot for a few matches or until the students are allowed to get their hands in the robot). I don't recommend this unless the mentors just won't listen at all. It'll be hard on both the students and the mentors; however, I think it would get the mentors' attention. Especially if the students returned to work on the robot when they got the chance to work on it.