What are you programming in?

[Chexposito]

Originally Posted by bdbayes

JAVA gives you the ability to rewrite the core code and therefore change it as necessary.

C/C++ does this as well and is classified as a lower code language than java (closer to actual machine code)

[bdbayes]

We also use java because that is what so many of the students at our school are trained in AP Computer Science.

Originally Posted by Chexposito

C/C++ does this as well and is classified as a lower code language than java (closer to actual machine code)

[Chexposito]

Originally Posted by apalrd

While I agree that C/C++ are great languages, I disagree with you on this point.

Just because the LV way of doing something might be different dosen't mean it's impossible or even very hard to do.

Having worked with both C and LabVIEW, there are many things which are much harder in LabVIEW if you try to program it like C (in a procedural or object-oriented way).

There are some things which are still harder in LabVIEW. However, there are some things in LabVIEW which are harder in C++. It's all a tradeoff. Both languages are fully capable of handling what we are throwing at them.

i agree with this, this is why (to my understanding) why my team moved back to c++ after a year of labview (in lunacy). mainly from what i've seen the visual processing from the camera is way easier. but since our current mentor did visual tracking back in rack and roll, we already have code to work off of.

[bdbayes]

It seems that most of the code examples are provided in Labview before any of the other languages.

Originally Posted by Chexposito

i agree with this, this is why (to my understanding) why my team moved back to c++ after a year of labview (in lunacy). mainly from what i've seen the visual processing from the camera is way easier. but since our current mentor did visual tracking back in rack and roll, we already have code to work off of.

[Chexposito]

Originally Posted by bdbayes

It seems that most of the code examples are provided in Labview before any of the other languages.

this is probably due to NI's involvement in labview (which they made), and their support/sponsorship of FIRST

[cjlane1138]

Originally Posted by apalrd

While I agree that C/C++ are great languages, I disagree with you on this point.

Just because the LV way of doing something might be different dosen't mean it's impossible or even very hard to do.

Having worked with both C and LabVIEW, there are many things which are much harder in LabVIEW if you try to program it like C (in a procedural or object-oriented way).

There are some things which are still harder in LabVIEW. However, there are some things in LabVIEW which are harder in C++. It's all a tradeoff. Both languages are fully capable of handling what we are throwing at them.

I have never even looked at LV. I know Java and C++ and the main reason I am programming the robot in C++ is b/c I know the WPI Libraries in C++ the best. And I will admit some things may be harder in C++, but we don't wanna make our job to easy now do we? haha.

[NeatTeam]

wow! I was completely convinced almost all teams use LabVIEW. (we do)

[cjlane1138]

Looks like everyone uses Java

[dellagd]

Java, though I guess we could try C++ one year, most of us are familiar with it.

[mikegrundvig]

We use C++ because one of the students a few years ago liked it and so we became a C++ team and have been ever since. The problem is that while the students believe they know C++, they are at best only passingly familiar with even the most basic aspects of it - mostly just cut and paste from the cookbook and examples. Even the smallest error in compiling can become a huge chore to debug.

This year's competition requires a far more sophisticated programming solution than anything our team has ever done. I believe that their assumption that they know the language well enough for this years competition is rapidly becoming our biggest hurdle. I have serious concerns about the ability of the team to code the full project. I wouldn't be surprised if we end up with a robot capable of far more mechanically than they are able to code.

C++ is amazingly powerful but the problem is that for accessing the WPI library it just adds a lot of hurdles and minimal benefits in this project. In my opinion, I feel C++ is significantly more of a pain than simple Java classes for what we are doing. For instance, the use of header files, compiler directives, macros, etc. are all common in C++ and can be avoided or don't exist in a language like Java. This increase in complexity isn't giving us more power on this project as we don't need it, it's just sapping time since none of the students really know the language.

I don't want to get into a C++ vs. Java argument at all. It's just that Java is simpler as it was designed specifically to reduce many of the complexities of C++ and baring a compelling need for the power of C++, I think we should have gone with it. Even LabView would likely have been a solid choice for what we are doing on the cRIO.

-Mike

[shuhao]

Tbh both Java and c++ are bloated languages that's really not ideal in a high-school robot competition.

[apalrd]

Originally Posted by shuhao

Tbh both Java and c++ are bloated languages that's really not ideal in a high-school robot competition.

Why?

C/C++ is/are one of the most common programming languages in existence today, and I would call C one of the most fundamental languages of computer programming.

What language would you suggest?
-It has to be able to be compiled or it's interpreter/VM must be able to be compiled for VxWorks
-The resulting code including the interpreter/VM must be very memory-small
-It has to be an easily accessible language (IDE's and tools for it must be free or donated, etc.)

[shuhao]

Originally Posted by apalrd

Why?

C/C++ is/are one of the most common programming languages in existence today, and I would call C one of the most fundamental languages of computer programming.

What language would you suggest?
-It has to be able to be compiled or it's interpreter/VM must be able to be compiled for VxWorks
-The resulting code including the interpreter/VM must be very memory-small
-It has to be an easily accessible language (IDE's and tools for it must be free or donated, etc.)

Python

It has been done .

Very accessible (no need to compile, even. So you don't even need an ide ).

IMO the entire software chain of the competition should be oss. But I guess those sponsors wont like that.

[mikegrundvig]

IMO the entire software chain of the competition should be oss. But I guess those sponsors wont like that.

This would be my preference as well. I'd like to see it on the hardware side too. I recognize that this isn't going to change so I don't make a stink about it but I was surprised to see how dependent the competition is on licensed products that expire right after the competition is over.

-Mike

[shuhao]

Originally Posted by mikegrundvig

This would be my preference as well. I'd like to see it on the hardware side too. I recognize that this isn't going to change so I don't make a stink about it but I was surprised to see how dependent the competition is on licensed products that expire right after the competition is over.

-Mike

Yup, completely agree... You can always start your competing open source arduino robot competitions with just a post to their forums (and then a link on reddit).

Won't be high school level.. but..