Practice bot morality

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by ebarker

disagree !!!!

Unfair is when 'the referee is blind' and makes a bad call against your football team, or you get a disease through no fault of your own.

If team ( or person ) A outworks, out fundraises, out performs, team ( or person ) B - yes, that is completely fair. That is the definition of fair. It isn't undue advantage.

Compare students that show up and work very hard and participate in FIRST with those that are just on the roster or just show up to socialize. It is completely fair that the hard workers earn the scholarships and Dean's List awards. The sooner a student learns that, the better off they will be. Unfortunately most don't learn until much later in life.

Ed's post should be required reading for everyone. The word "fair" gets tossed around far too often, both in FIRST and outside of it, without being fully understood.

[JaneYoung]

I like the word, ethical, rather than moral when thinking about this. It removes some of the sense of judgment for me.

Here's just a few thoughts to throw on the pile:

1. Having the time, resources, and energy to build a practice robot is an incentive. Committing to it, and following through with that commitment, shows maturity on the part of the team. It also shows that the team understands a bigger picture - doing as much as they can with the time and resources they have to be competitive.

2. That doesn't always happen. Teams may talk and plan for years and it still doesn't happen. The problem doesn't begin with resources - the problem begins with commitment. Building a practice bot and committing to practice time with the practice bot doesn't just happen.

3. A lot of factors are involved in the practice robot:
- team priorities
- management of time, organization, and funding
- practice space and availability
- goal setting

These are just a few that are involved with the commitment to building and using a practice bot for practicing. One of the biggies that isn't talked about much is the commitment of the adults' time that is involved in order to make it a worthwhile investment in achieving the team's goals. That's no small thing. Without the adults on board to coach, keep the space available, and be willing to deliver/pick up their children from practice if needed - it's not going to happen.

It's more than the practice bot. It's what the practice bot is about and what it says about the team.

Jane

[tsaksa]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Ed's post should be required reading for everyone. The word "fair" gets tossed around far too often, both in FIRST and outside of it, without being fully understood.

Absolutely. I know people who think that FIRST itself in unfair. They know FIRST students who do better in math and science than other students who spend their spare time playing video games. Even if those other students did all the assigned homework! Is that fair? What about being able to put their FIRST experience on a resume, or apply their learning to real world problems? And beyond FIRST itself is it really fair to take a special class that helps you study for an SAT when others can't afford it? Of course it is a bit unfair, but it does not, and should not, stop us from helping these students learn even if it is a bit unfair to those we can't reach.

Lets all try hard not to break the real rules. Lets embrace gracious professionalization. But at the same time lets make sure that students with ambition and talent get the most opportunity we can give them to build, practice, and learn. Goodness knows that the real world will not be worrying about what is fair to them when the time comes for them to face it.

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by tsaksa

Absolutely. I know people who think that FIRST itself in unfair. They know FIRST students who do better in math and science than other students who spend their spare time playing video games. Even if those other students did all the assigned homework! Is that fair? What about being able to put their FIRST experience on a resume, or apply their learning to real world problems? And beyond FIRST itself is it really fair to take a special class that helps you study for an SAT when others can't afford it? Of course it is a bit unfair, but it does not, and should not, stop us from helping these students learn even if it is a bit unfair to those we can't reach.

Lets all try hard not to break the real rules. Lets embrace gracious professionalization. But at the same time lets make sure that students with ambition and talent get the most opportunity we can give them to build, practice, and learn. Goodness knows that the real world will not be worrying about what is fair to them when the time comes for them to face it.

I wholeheartedly agree with everything said here. FIRST has leveled the playing field by providing 6 weeks to DESIGN and BUILD, and all of the other time is dedicated to bring in spare parts and practice. Every Team is capable of getting the resources for a 2nd robot. It depends on time, commitment, and a little bit of luck. If the team spends its time in the offseason fundraising, finding new sponsors, and working on build efficiency, they earned the resources needed for that 2nd robot.

Also, if you are determined to win the competition, you will practice. Remember, FRC is a varsity sport, FIRST is the organization to promote STEM. As with all sports, practice is the key to becoming a better player. Should I penalize my school's football team if they practice 4 days a week vs another school that only practices 3 days a week?