[DFTF] Bumper Tips...

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Cal578

I did not see anything in the bumper rules prohibiting other materials or parts such as Great Stuff. I wouldn't use it structurally, but using a little to just hold the noodles to the plywood seems like a great idea (it's amazingly sticky). I don't think you'll get any advantage by trying to fill the empty space. In the end, the fabric will really be the main method of holding the noodles to the plywood.

Check R28 - it tells you exactly what to construct your bumpers out of. Especially for the "soft" parts of the bumpers, you want to make sure there's nothing else there, or a quick inspector will tell you to take them apart and fix it according to the rules.

[Cal578]

Check R28 - it tells you exactly what to construct your bumpers out of.

What part of R28 says what you can't use? The closest I see to that is section C, which says:

use a stacked pair of 2-½ in. “pool noodles” as the bumper cushion material which completely covers the plywood.

Any adhesive you might use is not part of the "bumper cushion material". I wasn't suggesting, and I don't think the OP was either, that anyone use Great Stuff instead of the pool noodles, just in addition to.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Cal578

What part of R28 says what you can't use? The closest I see to that is section C, which says:

Any adhesive you might use is not part of the "bumper cushion material". I wasn't suggesting, and I don't think the OP was either, that anyone use Great Stuff instead of the pool noodles, just in addition to.

Try the part about "must be constructed as follows (See Figure 4-4)" from the very top of the rule (though I'm 99% certain they meant Figure 4-5). Or the part about hard stuff not extending past 1" beyond the frame perimeter (though if Great Stuff isn't hard, then that won't prohibit it).

Let's put it this way: If your inspector determines that having Great Stuff or some other material in the bumper is illegal, as of right now, you have no way of proving that it is legal to any inspector's satisfaction--they'd have to contact HQ for guidance. If you ask Q&A, and they say that it is legal, bring the Q&A with you to convince skeptical inspectors.

[Cal578]

Thanks for the answers, EricH. And I hope I don't appear stubborn about this (we're not even planning to use Great Stuff anyway, that was just the OP's idea). I am trying to understand the rules, and I think our discussion may be useful for other readers as well.

Try the part about "must be constructed as follows (See Figure 4-4)" from the very top of the rule (though I'm 99% certain they meant Figure 4-5).

I just read thru that section again, and looked at figures 4-4 and 4-5, and I still don't see many limitations on what we can use. I see a bunch of "optional", "etc.", and "e.g.", which looks to me like the rule makers were deliberately giving us quite a bit of discretion in what we use for much of the bumper. We must use plywood, noodles, and "rugged, smooth cloth", and we can't use velcro for attaching to the frame, but otherwise we have lots of options (as I read it).

Your advice about making sure we can pass inspection is sound, and I've said the same thing to my team and others. Arguing with inspectors is rarely a win-win scenario.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Cal578

I just read thru that section again, and looked at figures 4-4 and 4-5, and I still don't see many limitations on what we can use.

I'm going to assume that the first line of [R28] references Figure 4-5, despite it saying 4-4 (which figure is referenced by [R28-B], and illustrates that rule).

"Bumpers must be constructed as follows (see Figure 4-X)" is what the rule says. So, if we scroll down to Figure 4-5, the cross-sectional view of the bumper is shown. It shows the 1" limit for hard parts, the aluminum angle (optional), an example attachment method (TBD by the team), and the plywood (required). It also shows the cover (fabric type TBD by team within tough/smooth and color) and the pool noodles (size spec'd by section C).

What I don't see is anything (other than possibly fasteners, which are mounting-method dependent, and of course pool noodles) inside the fabric/plywood area. Does that mean it's not allowed? Not necessarily. Does that mean it's allowed? Not necessarily. So I think we're in limbo here until someone either a) asks Q&A or b) tries to pass inspection.

[thefro526]

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but during assembly, we'll usually put a dab (technical measurement ) or two of hot glue on each pool noodle to hold them in place. Really makes wrapping them much easier.

As far as attachment, we've been using the same Quick Release Pins (Similar to McMaster P/N 92384A034) for two or three years. They're a bit expensive, but work really well for us. Depending on robot weight, we'll attach the pins to the frame with a piece of string to keep them from getting lost - unless we need those precious few ounces.

[RufflesRidge]

Originally Posted by thefro526

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but during assembly, we'll usually put a dab (technical measurement ) or two of hot glue on each pool noodle to hold them in place. Really makes wrapping them much easier.

This is a good idea, but I will add a word of warning. Depending on exactly what your noodle is made of and how zealous the student is, it can be very easy to melt sizable chunks out of the noodle.

[GaryVoshol]

On making a one-piece bumper which you will slip down over the frame: It depends on what the rest of your robot is like. It might not be that easy to slide it down past everything. Yes, the Frame Perimeter in the Bumper Zone must be the largest horizontal extent of your Robot, but that doesn't mean it will slip on easily. Maybe compromise, and have 2 parts?

Bumper skirts won't work as well this year if you intend to have less than 100% bumper coverage.

We too have used spots of hot glue to stabilize the noodles while we are stretching the fabric over them.

Past rules and/or interpretations have stated that bumpers can be made only of plywood, noodles, fabric, fasteners and optional angle aluminum. I haven't extensively studied the 2 pages of bumper Q&A to see if that applies this year.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Gerri,
Those of us who are writing, are doing so from our shared experience as inspectors. We have seen teams modify the bumpers with things like 3/4 steel rod, tape to constrict pool noodles to 1" in diameter or less, every kind of fabric you can think of including a couple of pairs of Levi's cut up, and recently every shade of blue and red you can think of. Please remember that the bumper design, for what it is, is intended to minimize robot to robot damage. Those who instituted the rule(s) believe they are working very well when built as specified.

[Coach Norm]

We have used 1/4" Hole Grip Cleco clamps to hold our bumpers on for past three years. They work extremely well. You will need Cleco pliers as well to remove the Clecos.


We attach a small piece of aluminum angle to the bumper. The angle has a 1/4" hole drilled to match the KOP chassis frame holes.

In the past we have made two sets of bumpers.