Who is going over the bump? (A Pillar really)

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by ThirteenOfTwo

....

You and I obviously have different opinions on this years game.

In a short and final response.

1. We aren't twisting the rules of the game it is a simulation which isn't the real game either and we aren't the only ones who do table top simulations.

2. It isn't game over if the bridge is blocked. If that is your thinking then start shooting your heart out.

3. Our design is literally driving over the bump which makes it 1 second and very easy for us so crossing the bump is effecient to get balls.

4. I'm sure there will be a robot at my competition who can spit balls out but I'm not going to wait for balls from another robot if my robot can get them faster. Again I don't plan my design around other teams robots unless I see they are GOOD at it.

5. Haven't tried that yet but with how few balls there are i'm not going to risk us losing one by a missed bounce shot if it is possible. Again if us driving to the other side of the field is faster we will.

6. I have human feeding next to picking up on the floor in order of importance. Can't throw over the wall until 30 secs remember!

7. Us crossing the bump has required a custom base that not everyone is capable of but it is still our decision to go with our design.

8. In every match I have been something from pre-match discussions have had to change mid match whether someone else on our alliance did something we didn't discuss or we had to change due to changes on the field. Sometimes you have to change your strategy, other times it is just humans reacting in the way they believe they need to react. Its not that I don't trust our partners, but I know that something will change. Being a drive coach last year and driving at a few off-seasons have showed me this.

9. My point was that if balls are on the other side of the field for WHATEVER reason we will still get them and going over the bump is faster for us.

10. It is not wasted time for us.

11. Good that you guys know how to prioritize based on your capabilities it pays off when you can weigh the pros and cons. Personally I can see the bridges being empty at some points but if we need to move zones I can see someone on one or both bridge. Might be extreme cases but going over the bump is faster.

Sorry for the lengthy post this is all I have on the topic. Good luck this season!

[ThirteenOfTwo]

Originally Posted by BrendanB

You and I obviously have different opinions on this years game...

We are in concurrence on all points, except that I think that travel time to cross the field, even if your robot can instantly cross the bump, is always going to be slower than an ally passing the ball across the field, that I think that bounce passing is viable, and that I think that when a robot breaks down on your bridge and prevents you from balancing it you have lost.

Given all of the arguing we were doing, that's relatively few points of contention. Besides, even though I don't agree with your logic all of the way through, I agree that a team with resources (like yours) is perfectly correct and justified in designing to cross the bump.

Good luck in the FRC season, and may your robot always drive straight!

[Eric Kosek]

Originally Posted by kinganu123

imo, a no brainer since we can't throw the balls onto the scoring side until the last 30 seconds.

You can still get balls across to the other side with your human player. A bounce pass through the slot will make it over the bridge or the bump.

[Brandon Zalinsky]

Originally Posted by Eric Kosek

You can still get balls across to the other side with your human player. A bounce pass through the slot will make it over the bridge or the bump.

No, they won't... Have you tried? They don't bounce, they just die after the first time they hit the ground.

[LinuxArchitect]

Originally Posted by ThirteenOfTwo

3) Even if they block your bridge, the Coopertition bridge is open and blocking you there is a technical foul under the blockading rule.

The blockading rule [G23] only applies to multiple robots blocking progress. One on one blocking is allowed. And via the official Q&A, blocking exit from the center bridge, in either direction (e.g. by preventing the bridge to lower with a robot already on it), is not considered a pin.

Not sure that a blocking robot would win many battles against a robot with an elevation advantage, but we'll see... I expect to see some interesting collisions at mid-field, and some heated arguments about whether damage to either robot should draw a technical foul or a yellow card.

However, I expect to see just as much blocking at the barrier. Should be a regular wrecking yard in some matches.

[thefro526]

Our Drive Train is designed to go over the barrier, whether or not we do will be decided based on the current situation.

"Better to be able to do something and chose not to than to need to do something and not be able to" is a common design mentality on 816.

[Eric Kosek]

Originally Posted by Flak-Bait

No, they won't... Have you tried? They don't bounce, they just die after the first time they hit the ground.

Well I dont know what balls you are bouncing because we have gotten them over through the slot.

[BrendanB]

Originally Posted by Eric Kosek

You can still get balls across to the other side with your human player. A bounce pass through the slot will make it over the bridge or the bump.

Originally Posted by Flak-Bait

No, they won't... Have you tried? They don't bounce, they just die after the first time they hit the ground.

Originally Posted by Eric Kosek

Well I dont know what balls you are bouncing because we have gotten them over through the slot.

It depends on the ball. We have some we have been playing with since week one and brand new out of the bag and the difference is huge! The new ones have a nice bounce to them while the used ones tend to bounce less. When we put them in our shooter the distance can vary several feet.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by ThirteenOfTwo

We are in concurrence on all points, except that I think that travel time to cross the field, even if your robot can instantly cross the bump, is always going to be slower than an ally passing the ball across the field, that I think that bounce passing is viable, and that I think that when a robot breaks down on your bridge and prevents you from balancing it you have lost.

Given all of the arguing we were doing, that's relatively few points of contention. Besides, even though I don't agree with your logic all of the way through, I agree that a team with resources (like yours) is perfectly correct and justified in designing to cross the bump.

Good luck in the FRC season, and may your robot always drive straight!

I dont believe you need to be a team with resources to cross the bump.
There are many possible designs that teams can come up with to do so, and still be able to design a bot that score baskets.
Being that your team has come up with decent bots in the past, I'm sure you folks will come up with something to do so.
Despite simulations and trying to determine to what extent its important, one fact remains true......being able to effectively cross the bump is better than not being able to at all.

[dellagd]

Originally Posted by waialua359

I dont believe you need to be a team with resources to cross the bump.
There are many possible designs that teams can come up with to do so, and still be able to design a bot that score baskets.
Being that your team has come up with decent bots in the past, I'm sure you folks will come up with something to do so.
Despite simulations and trying to determine to what extent its important, one fact remains true......being able to effectively cross the bump is better than not being able to at all.

I agree. My team does not have extensive resources, but we still came up with a pretty good way to cross the bump I think! Plus we have a good scoring mechanism with it.

[Wolfgang]

For many teams picking up balls off the ground, such as ours, going over the bump could potentially damage our bot's intaker. Also, the wheels needed to cross the bump are relatively large, so some teams may just find it more convienient to go bridge.

On the other hand, the bump would provide faster mobility that is also very spacious. With the bump and the bridge together, a bot can be very mobile in this field.

The point is, the bump has its advantages and disadvantages.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Wolfgang

Also, the wheels needed to cross the bump are relatively large, so some teams may just find it more convienient to go bridge. .

This is simply not true.

There are some extremely simple ways to cross the bump with wheels as small as 4".

Larger wheels make it 'easier' to cross the bump but they aren't absolutely needed.

[ThirteenOfTwo]

Originally Posted by LinuxArchitect

The blockading rule [G23] only applies to multiple robots blocking progress. One on one blocking is allowed. And via the official Q&A, blocking exit from the center bridge, in either direction (e.g. by preventing the bridge to lower with a robot already on it), is not considered a pin.

I'd be impressed if the same robot could block you at both your bridge and the other bridge, but it's kind of beside the point because blocking's not really a concern at the time in the match when you'd be most likely to cross over (i.e. really early).

Originally Posted by waialua359

I dont believe you need to be a team with resources to cross the bump. [...] Despite simulations and trying to determine to what extent its important, one fact remains true......being able to effectively cross the bump is better than not being able to at all.

I definitely agree with you there. Our thought process is that, while being able to cross the bump effectively is better than not being able to cross it at all, being able to cross the bump effectively with a mediocre scoring mechanism is worse than having a great scorer and not being able to cross the bump. First things first!

Despite what my posts may imply, our team has not ruled out a bump-crossing mechanism. It's just lower on our list of priorities than perfecting the scorer, which means that it won't get started on until late in the build season. We'll see how it turns out. Right now it looks like we're going to have more time than we initially thought.

Thanks for the input and we'll see you at the regional!

[AdamHeard]

Originally Posted by thefro526

This is simply not true.

There are some extremely simple ways to cross the bump with wheels as small as 4".

Larger wheels make it 'easier' to cross the bump but they aren't absolutely needed.

Or 2.9" wheels

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by AdamHeard

Or 2.9" wheels

Sounds like something Aren Hill challenged you to haha.

Looking forward to seeing that.