Go to Post Remember, FIRST is a great opportunity that will get you ahead in the long run but don't forget about the short run either. - ChrisMcK2186 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2012, 16:35
Cheeset2 Cheeset2 is offline
Registered User
FRC #4254
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: New York
Posts: 9
Cheeset2 is an unknown quantity at this point
Motors without Jaguars?

on our robot we currently have 4 jaguars hooked up to 4 motors. currently we are unable to hook up another jaguar since we don't have anymore breakers. i was wondering if there was a way to hook up motors to the robot without using a jaguar?
we are attempting to hook up a widow motor or the fiserprice gearbox.

thanks in advance.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2012, 16:47
Kevin Sevcik's Avatar
Kevin Sevcik Kevin Sevcik is offline
(Insert witty comment here)
FRC #0057 (The Leopards)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,744
Kevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Sevcik Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin Sevcik
Re: Motors without Jaguars?

Temporarily, yes. Legally, no. All motors have to go through a breaker at some point for your robot to pass inspection. So to compete at a regional, you're going to need more breakers and jaguars.

Temporarily, you could either double up wires coming out of a breaker, or wire your motor to a smaller breaker. You should still have some 20A and 30A breakers left.

That could be a permanent solution. You don't HAVE to wire every Jaguar to a 40A breaker. If your robot works fine with the window motor on a 20A breaker, then you can stick with that.

Also, not every motor needs to connect to a Jaguar. Currently, only CIM motors and Fisher Price motors are required to connect to a Jaguar/speed controller. All other motors, including your window motor, could be run off a Spike Relay. Spikes need to connect to a 20A breaker, and they can only run a motor full forward or full reverse, but they're great if that fits your limitations.
__________________
The difficult we do today; the impossible we do tomorrow. Miracles by appointment only.

Lone Star Regional Troubleshooter
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2012, 17:27
Jon Stratis's Avatar
Jon Stratis Jon Stratis is offline
Mentor, LRI, MN RPC
FRC #2177 (The Robettes)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 3,835
Jon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond reputeJon Stratis has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Motors without Jaguars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik View Post
Temporarily, you could either double up wires coming out of a breaker, or wire your motor to a smaller breaker. You should still have some 20A and 30A breakers left.
This is not legal. R43, Part A states:
Quote:
Each speed controller branch circuit must be protected by one and only one 20-amp, 30-amp, or 40-amp circuit breaker on the PD Board (from the KOP or identical equivalent). No other electrical load can be connected to the breaker supplying this circuit.
Each speed controller needs its own individual branch circuit.

The easiest solution is going to be to obtain additional circuit breakers: http://www.andymark.com/Power-s/263.htm

You can attach Jaguars to 20 or 30 Amp circuit breakers as well... for a window motor, 20A works just fine - we've never had an issue doing that, and we've put some amazing stress on the window motors in the past.

Last edited by Jon Stratis : 01-02-2012 at 17:31.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 01-02-2012, 18:11
lemiant's Avatar
lemiant lemiant is offline
the Dreamer
AKA: Alex
FRC #4334 (Alberta Tech Alliance)
Team Role: Leadership
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 562
lemiant has a reputation beyond reputelemiant has a reputation beyond reputelemiant has a reputation beyond reputelemiant has a reputation beyond reputelemiant has a reputation beyond reputelemiant has a reputation beyond reputelemiant has a reputation beyond reputelemiant has a reputation beyond reputelemiant has a reputation beyond reputelemiant has a reputation beyond reputelemiant has a reputation beyond repute
For a temporary, NOT COMPETITION LEGAL. Solution you can buy 40A maxi breakers from local hardware or auto stores. However they are not auto-resetting like the Andymark ones and they are not legal in competition.
__________________
FRC Team 4334
2012 - Archimedes Champions, IRI Champions
2013 - Western Canadian Regional Winner, Galileo Quarter-Finalilst

  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2012, 01:54
nitneylion452's Avatar
nitneylion452 nitneylion452 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Joe Lee
FRC #3167 (Environmental Tectonics Crusaders)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 596
nitneylion452 has much to be proud ofnitneylion452 has much to be proud ofnitneylion452 has much to be proud ofnitneylion452 has much to be proud ofnitneylion452 has much to be proud ofnitneylion452 has much to be proud ofnitneylion452 has much to be proud ofnitneylion452 has much to be proud of
Re: Motors without Jaguars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon Stratis View Post
This is not legal. R43, Part A states:
<snip>
The key word was temporary fix. He meant to do that only until they had the parts they needed.
__________________
Joe
"The ones who will one day rule the world rule the basketball court today."

http://www.fatherjudgerobotics.webs.com

Volunteer 2012 MAR Region Championship - Field Reset
Volunteer 2013 MAR Region Championship - Field Reset
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2012, 02:04
gurellia53's Avatar
gurellia53 gurellia53 is offline
word up
AKA: Andrew G
FRC #1736 (Robot Casserole)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Rookie Year: 2007
Location: Peoria, Illinois
Posts: 151
gurellia53 is a splendid one to beholdgurellia53 is a splendid one to beholdgurellia53 is a splendid one to beholdgurellia53 is a splendid one to beholdgurellia53 is a splendid one to beholdgurellia53 is a splendid one to beholdgurellia53 is a splendid one to behold
Re: Motors without Jaguars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheeset2 View Post
on our robot we currently have 4 jaguars hooked up to 4 motors. currently we are unable to hook up another jaguar since we don't have anymore breakers. i was wondering if there was a way to hook up motors to the robot without using a jaguar?
we are attempting to hook up a widow motor or the fiserprice gearbox.

thanks in advance.
Yes you can use a Spike relay instead of a Jaguar. You will still need a breaker though.
__________________
FRC
Robot Casserole 1736: 2007 - 2008, 2013 - present
Team Neutrino 3928: 2012
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 02-02-2012, 09:12
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,798
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Motors without Jaguars?

Cheeset,
It is hard to discern from your post, are you expecting delivery of some breakers in the future? If not, I would recommend you order some so you have spares and/or the ability to add things at competition if you come up with further ideas. While you wait, the spacing for the breakers also matches normal automotive fuses. I would recommend you use fuses only in circuits where the motor stall currents are less than the rating on the fuse. A 40 amp fuse on a CIM would blow often due to the CIM currents. Fuses can be purchased relatively inexpensively at your local auto parts store or online. Only CIM motors and Fisher Price motors are required to be driven by speed controllers. So an alternative is to run a motor through a Spike using a 20 amp breaker. The code is a little different for this and you will not have any speed control but it does give you the ability to connect a motor that runs continuously for ball pick up or a shooter. If you are desperate, there may be another team close by that would be willing to lend or sell some breakers for you to use.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 19:50.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi