Practice bot morality

[Marc S.]

The only unfair part about FIRST robotics is that some teams choose not to work hard, thus making for less exciting regionals.

Seriously though, how is the fact that some teams work harder than others unfair? I could see people complaining that it is unfair that they(an individual person) are put on a team that has less immediate sponsors than others, but not that the first robotics program itself is unfair.

If FIRST said in the rules that team X was allowed to build a practice bot and team Y was not, then it would be unfair. But NO, FIRST gives EVERY TEAM an EQUAL opportunity to work hard/build multiple robots/have mechanical engineering mentors/etc.

Take team 973 for example, from 2002-2007 973 was a mediocre team, and like many others looked at the big name teams(60, 254, 294, 968, (from that era, in CA)) and said "WOW, they are just unbeatable, we will never preform as good as them"(taken from a 2003-2006 team parent).
In 2008 members of team 973 decided they wanted to work harder and build higher quality robots. Since then the team has been moderately successful and aims every year at being the best in the world knowing that that is an achievable goal. If you don't believe me just look at 973's record from 2002-2007 vs their record from 2008-2011(and so on). This was all done with HARD WORK. That is why our motto is 'OUTWORK US'. If you don't agree with that motto then simply work harder. A team is only as good as the work they put in. If nothing else, the one thing I have recieved most out of being a member of team 973 is that anything is possible if put your mind to it, and work at it.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Marc S.

The only unfair part about FIRST robotics is that some teams choose not to work hard, thus making for less exciting regionals.

Ouch.

I am to understand that FIRST is unfair because regionals are less exciting because some teams choose not to work hard. Have I got that right? Who are the people that determine that teams are not working hard?

Jane

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Marc S.

The only unfair part about FIRST robotics is that some teams choose not to work hard, thus making for less exciting regionals.

<SNIP>

Such a blanket statement about the work ethics of others. Remember, that your words not only reflect on you, but also on your team ... and to me your words seem arrogant.

[Marc S.]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Such a blanket statement about the work ethics of others. Remember, that your words not only reflect on you, but also on your team ... and to me your words seem arrogant.

I'm sorry if that came out as arrogant, I was only trying to provide a counter example to the original post. If you read further in my post you might have found out why. Also I hope that people will not reflect my personal opinions with the general attitude of a team that I work with.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Marc S.

I'm sorry if that came out as arrogant, I was only trying to provide a counter example to the original post. If you read further in my post you might have found out why. Also I hope that people will not reflect my personal opinions with the general attitude of a team that I work with.

When you make blanket statements about other teams work ethic, it tends to reflect negatively.

I did read further on in your original post. I also noted that your rookie date coincided with your statement that you 'decided' to work harder. In other words, it sounded like "since I've joined, we've worked harder than everyone else". Hence my 'arrogant' remark. Personally, I don't let 1 statement form an opinion of a team ... but it does go into the 'collective' persona of my opinion.

I know GRR is a great team (from those I've talked to). I know that GRR works very hard (again, from those I've talked to). However, I believe that it is the height of huberis if you believe that the reason GRR has been successful and others have not is because you are working harder than they are.

There are many factors that go into success, And yes, hard work is one of the big ones. That being said, there are many more variables that need to be considered. Population density, Availability of skilled mentors, Availability of corporate sponsorships, Support level of the local school (board), the teams machining capability ... these are just a few of the variables that go into a teams success on the field, nevermind the teams success in inspiring the students to go on and do great things.

I guess, in the end, it's better to be humble and try to help than use yourself as an example of being better than others.

JM(NS)HO

[O'Sancheski]

I don't even know how to respond to this post. If you have a problem with a member on your team, please talk to them in person before you attempt to ruin their reputation on the internet.
From what I have seen Mark post here on CD he has been very professional and knowledgeable. I hate to see that someone created an account just to call out a specific person so that he/she could ruin their reputation.

[Chris Fultz]

All -

This thread is so done I can almost smell the burnt.

Please be civil. Don't attack individuals or individual teams.

Be civil or this will be locked.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

All -

This thread is so done I can almost smell the burnt.

Please be civil. Don't attack individuals or individual teams.

Be civil or this will be locked.

(Emphasis mine)

Chris, I've never quite heard it stated that way before. I just ate some burned peanut butter toast so it drove the point home.

I would just like to share one more thought... as I've said before, we aren't to the point where we are building a practice 'bot but - we have a 'mule' that the programmers can use to work with while our robot is coming together. Yesterday, I stopped by the shop and the robot had spent some of the build time getting its weight lightened in preparation for the the programmers. The programmers were chatty, excited, and busy, working with the 'mule'. I have a great appreciation for our 'mule'. It's not a practice 'bot but it is an amazing tool that has helped our team.

Jane

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

(Emphasis mine)

Chris, I've never quite heard it stated that way before. I just ate some burned peanut butter toast so it drove the point home.

I would just like to share one more thought... as I've said before, we aren't to the point where we are building a practice 'bot but - we have a 'mule' that the programmers can use to work with while our robot is coming together. Yesterday, I stopped by the shop and the robot had spent some of the build time getting its weight lightened in preparation for the the programmers. The programmers were chatty, excited, and busy, working with the 'mule'. I have a great appreciation for our 'mule'. It's not a practice 'bot but it is an amazing tool that has helped our team.

Jane

I call the 'mule' a 'protobot' -- same idea, though.