Drivetrain Only Strategies???

[Mr V]

How about a quick and simple appendage that can herd balls. A couple of pieces of polycarb that form a V that are flexible enough so you can ram balls against the barrier and force them over. Just don't make it so big that you could accidentally herd more than 3. In this years game with a low number of balls available a bot that can get balls to your teams scoring side however it is done could be very valuable. Even just keeping balls out of the opposing alliance's reach could make a difference in the final score.

[davidthefat]

Be very careful of penalties. Especially being a bot without a reliable ball manipulator, you might get anxious and will try to block every one. That most likely bite you back during matches by getting penalties. Even if you will be on the side of your driver station, things can get hectic.

[The_ShamWOW88]

At the very least, your bot should probably be able to go over the bump so you can assist in defense or pushing balls over to your alliance's scoring zone. If you could design some sort of simple pick-up mechanism to carry 3 balls over to the scoring zone may be helpful too.

Getting on the ramp would be huge too considering the points may help edge a match at the end.

[JohnSchneider]

maybe build a 111-style bot circa 2001? Serve as a bridge balancer and ramp for your team?

[Wayne TenBrink]

Build a small chassis for balancing. An arm to lower the ramp would help.

Sit in your own feeder lane. Let balls collect there (rebounds, inbounders, etc.). Hoard them for your alliance partners. If you opponents try to come in the lane to get them, bump them (repeatedly?) to collect the 3-point foul(s?). Don't go chasing after other robots on the open field.

Then get on the ramp.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Wayne TenBrink

Sit in your own feeder lane. Let balls collect there (rebounds, inbounders, etc.). Hoard them for your alliance partners. If you opponents try to come in the lane to get them, bump them (repeatedly?) to collect the 3-point foul(s?).

The bolded part is what I'm responding to here, but the entire quote outlines the strategy.

This strategy is worth 9 points to your opponent and a DQ to you (plus however many fouls you rack up against your opponent to your partners--they don't do you any good due to the red card). [R45] disallows this type of strategy. To be even more clear, see the following Q&A from Week 2:

Game - The Game » Penalties » G45
Q. Is G45 violated if a robot herds balls into their alley and waits nearby so if/when an opposing robot attempts to retrieve said balls they can contact them resulting in a foul as per G44?
A. Yes. It could also be considered trapping depending on how the strategy is executed.

In other words, this strategy is strongly discouraged, to say the least.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by EricH

In other words, this strategy is strongly discouraged, to say the least.

But there is nothing stopping the robot from herding the balls into the corner of the lane and blocking all robots that try to retrive them. Correct?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

But there is nothing stopping the robot from herding the balls into the corner of the lane and blocking all robots that try to retrive them. Correct?

You could sit there the whole time, and not try to contact other robots, and probably not get penalized. That is true. However...

If you look at the answer given, there is a note about "trapping" being a possibility. See the blue box in [G22]. So, if you did this with more than 3 basketballs, you could get a foul per extra basketball.

[2544HCRC]

The big D is our strategy this year. Inflatable tires to hammer over the barrier, a ball sweeper to collect balls. A hopper to dump them over the barrier or feed them to another bot, and the ability to essentially dump balls into the bottom hoop if needed. 2 CIM's on a side for added torque. Our plan is to starve the other team of balls and keep teams from getting quickly back on the key. I think robots are going to have to be in very specific locations to shoot acurately. If you can interfere with that you have an effective defensive strategy. I also think you can be effective by running interference on your alliance side if you have a really effective shooter. Feed them balls so thay can shoot and let them stay on the key. We are talking about making our sweeper reversable so we can feel another bot directly. I think defense is going to be HUGE this year.

[nitneylion452]

Hopefully they will update this contradiction. I would post to Q&A, but I don't have access.

Originally Posted by G28

Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.
Violation: Foul; Technical-Foul for purposeful, consequential contact.

Originally Posted by Blue Box

This rule applied at all times, no matter who initiates the contact, see [G44].

I see that [G44] says that [G28] is an exception, but they should still clear it up in the manual.

[XaulZan11]

Originally Posted by EricH

You could sit there the whole time, and not try to contact other robots, and probably not get penalized. That is true. However...

If you look at the answer given, there is a note about "trapping" being a possibility. See the blue box in [G22]. So, if you did this with more than 3 basketballs, you could get a foul per extra basketball.

I don't think I would need to avoid contact with opposing robot when in my lane. If I herd 5 balls into the lane (never touching more than 2 at a time), I should be able to strafe along the lane and block the opposing robots from getting to the balls. If we both end up in the lane and I push them away from the balls, I'd be pissed if I got a red card. The strategy isn't to draw penalites but to block them from getting to the balls.

[nitneylion452]

The best way to execute that strategy would be to remain outside the lane. If you remain in the lane, you are prohibiting contact and it would seem like you are trying to take advantage of [G44]. In my opinion, at least.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by XaulZan11

I don't think I would need to avoid contact with opposing robot when in my lane. If I herd 5 balls into the lane (never touching more than 2 at a time), I should be able to strafe along the lane and block the opposing robots from getting to the balls. If we both end up in the lane and I push them away from the balls, I'd be pissed if I got a red card. The strategy isn't to draw penalites but to block them from getting to the balls.

Originally Posted by nitneylion452

The best way to execute that strategy would be to remain outside the lane. If you remain in the lane, you are prohibiting contact and it would seem like you are trying to take advantage of [G44]. In my opinion, at least.

Exactly.

If you have 5 in the alley (even only contacting 3 at a time), there are multiple situational penalties that could be applied.

--[G22] for trapping/herding more than 3. Highly situational, so I'm not going to say for sure that it would be called. If called, 3 points/extra ball to your opponent.
--[G28] if you and an opponent make contact. Applied to them if you're in your alley. 3 points/hit to you.
--[G45] if it's deemed that you're using [G28] as a strategy. 9 points to your opponent, red card to you. Like it or not, that's how the rule is written. But the referees will have to make that determination.

So, if you have 5 balls in your alley, and you are blocking opponents from getting to them, you could end up with, depending on the situation:
-6 points for two extra balls in control of the robot
-9 points for using [G28] as a strategy
+3 points per hit
DQ for using [G28] as a strategy, which hurts your elimination chances.

Again, this is very situationally-dependent. If you're just sitting there, blocking access to 5 basketballs that are relatively free-moving, and not making any moves to hit someone else, I'd put it at a 75% or greater chance you don't get a red card, 50% or greater that you don't get any penalties at all. If you're sitting outside the alley, virtually 0% chance of penalty for that. If you're actively defending, I'd give it a minimum 50-50 of your getting a penalty and more like 67% chance of penalty.

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Madison

...This year, there is a very simple, valuable role a team without a functioning basketball manipulator can fill. It involves the bridge, of course.

If you're unsure that you'll be able to achieve a mechanism to lower the bridge, instead make certain that your robot has a flat surface that is, say, 10.5 - 11" above the carpet. Make it 3-4" deep and at both edges of your robot. Now, beyond that, build a taller frame -- two vertical members or even flags could suffice here -- that will hit the bridge when your robot drives below it.
....

I really like where Madison is going with this. I would suggest instead of vertical risers, to have angled risers so that driving under the bridge deeper will tilt it down for your teammates. Have a flag at the transition from the 10" flat zone to the angled (probably 30 degrees should work well.

If you build this, you could be very helpful with teams that do not have a bridge lowering device.

There is also a very very very very simple devices that can be made that can score almost as many points as a bridge balance. Very very very very simple...

[ThirteenOfTwo]

The super-simple bot:
1) Be able to quickly and reliably lower the bridge
2) Be able to cross the bump
3) Have an intake roller on the front of your robot
4) Let the intake push balls upwards onto a ramped box
5) When you run the intake backwards, the balls will roll out
6) Leave the top of the ramped box open so that human players can feed it
7) Make the drive as powerful as possible
8) Make the footprint as small as possible
9) Make the robot as heavy as possible

In a match:
1) At the beginning of each match, cross the bump
2) Keep opposing robots away from their key with ramming defense
3) When opposing robots miss their shots, grab the rebounds
4) When they score, go over to your inbounder station to receive balls
5) Ferry balls back to your own side of the field and give them to partners
6) Rinse, repeat
7) At the end of the match, lower the bridge and get on

Before alliance selection, sell yourself as a second pick. The above robot, with a practiced driver and the ability to cooperate with other teams, will almost certainly make it to eliminations and might even get snapped up near the bottom of the first round of selections. If you can't build the intake roller, at least build the ramped box with some sort of release and you'll only go a little later. If you can't lower the bridge or build the intake, at least build a powerful pushing drive and you might make it as a very late pick--this could actually give you a better chance at winning the tournament due to the serpentine draft.