2nd Most Awaited Q and A Answer?

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by jason701802

I would expect this to be handled similarly to 2010, where it was the responsibility of the inspectors to ensure that a ball could not get more than 3in into the frame, so that the refs only have to look for obvious violations of the rule, like deploying two completely different appendages at the same time.

Inspectors (Lead inspectors, at least) should also consider when to let the Head Ref know that there is something to look out for-- "Team XXX has an appendage that is mechanically able to swing sideways into the corner which would be illegal, but they claim the SW (or the driver) will prevent it from happening. Keep an eye out for it." Or something like that...

[RDX1466]

Our design uses a "clam-shell" style appendage that will come together to drop a ball for the short-range shooter.

It is my understanding that as long as the frame perimeter is only crossed once, the appendage can fork off into multiple appendages (say 7" out for example).

Would a clam-shell design that is hinged WITHIN the frame perimeter be considered two appendages, even though it is mechanically contiguous?

[SteveGPage]

Originally Posted by RDX1466

Our design uses a "clam-shell" style appendage that will come together to drop a ball for the short-range shooter.

It is my understanding that as long as the frame perimeter is only crossed once, the appendage can fork off into multiple appendages (say 7" out for example).

Would a clam-shell design that is hinged WITHIN the frame perimeter be considered two appendages, even though it is mechanically contiguous?

You could always ask the GDC, but would think they would indicate that they are not able to advise on any design. Current answers, regarding this topic, from the GDC on the Q&A forum would indicate that because the hinge is within the frame perimeter, this design would be illegal.

[SteveGPage]

An update:

[G21]Robots may extend one appendage up to 14 in. beyond a single edge of their frame perimeter at any time.
Violation: Foul for exceeding size allotments; Technical-Foul for continuous or repeated violations.


These appendages are intended for use in manipulating Basketballs and/or Bridges. A Robot may have multiple extension devices onboard, but only one may be deployed at a given time.

All portions of an appendage that are outside the Frame Perimeter must be contiguous with each other. Very brief violations of the contiguity requirement as a single appendage is being extended or retracted will not be penalized.

[jason701802]

Originally Posted by jvriezen

Inspectors (Lead inspectors, at least) should also consider when to let the Head Ref know that there is something to look out for-- "Team XXX has an appendage that is mechanically able to swing sideways into the corner which would be illegal, but they claim the SW (or the driver) will prevent it from happening. Keep an eye out for it." Or something like that...

I was thinking the same thing. Maybe if there was a system (possibly integrated into the FMS, I don't know enough about the systems they use) were inspectors in enter quick notes about teams that the refs would see when the teams came on the field.

Originally Posted by Siri

Perhaps what they need to do is define it as "after deployment, or when it intentionally comes in contact with a Court element (whichever comes first)".

This seems like the simplest and best solution. Possibly modifying it to be "The contiguous part of an appendage must be outside the frame perimeter before the appendage may interact with any game/field element(s)"


EDIT: I guess this works too:

Originally Posted by SteveGPage

All portions of an appendage that are outside the Frame Perimeter must be contiguous with each other. Very brief violations of the contiguity requirement as a single appendage is being extended or retracted will not be penalized.

This would allow rollers with whips as long the whips start within the frame perimeter and the solid part of the roller is pushed to the frame perimeter before it is used.

[jvriezen]

From today's update!

[G21]
Robots may extend one appendage up to 14 in. beyond a single edge of their frame perimeter at any time.
Violation: Foul for exceeding size allotments; Technical-Foul for continuous or repeated violations.


These appendages are intended for use in manipulating Basketballs and/or Bridges. A Robot may have multiple extension devices onboard, but only one may be deployed at a given time.

All portions of an appendage that are outside the Frame Perimeter must be contiguous with each other. Very brief violations of the contiguity requirement as a single appendage is being extended or retracted will not be penalized.




Yeah!

[Bob Steele]

I can now rest better...Common sense has prevailed...
Hurrah!!

[mott]

Amen to that!!!

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

I can now rest better...Common sense has prevailed...
Hurrah!!

X2!!!!

[Bob Steele]

By the way....PLEASE Don't start arguing about what "Very Brief" means...

:0)

[SteveGPage]

Not to squash the feelings of jubilation after this latest update, but it does bring into question another issue. In a couple of recent Q&A answers:

Game - The Game » Robot Actions » G21
Q. Can appendages (one at a time) be used for purposes other than manipulating Basketballs and/or Bridges?
FRC3005 2012-01-11
A. Yes, as long as no other rules are violated.

Game - The Game » Robot-Robot Interaction
Q. Can a robot grab onto another robot, of the same team in a nondestructive manner, in order to help balance on the bridge?
FRC0122 2012-01-21
A. Yes, provided Game rules are not broken, specifically [G26] and [G27].

With this new update, "These appendages are intended for use in manipulating Basketballs and/or Bridges" - those answers can be called into question. Can you design the appendage for a use different than manipulating the Basketballs or Bridges, such as to grab onto your alliance partner while attempting to balance the bridge?

If I had an appendage whose primary function is other than for manipulating the Basketballs or Bridges, I would ask for clarification from the GDC as soon possible.

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by SteveGPage

With this new update, "These appendages are intended for use in manipulating Basketballs and/or Bridges" - those answers can be called into question. Can you design the appendage for a use different than manipulating the Basketballs or Bridges, such as to grab onto your alliance partner while attempting to balance the bridge?

If I had an appendage whose primary function is other than for manipulating the Basketballs or Bridges, I would ask for clarification from the GDC as soon possible.

That question was already asked several weeks ago:

Game - The Game » Robot Actions » G21
Q. Can appendages (one at a time) be used for purposes other than manipulating Basketballs and/or Bridges? FRC3005 2012-01-11
A. Yes, as long as no other rules are violated.

[SteveGPage]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

That question was already asked several weeks ago:

As we both quoted, the answer indicates that it CAN be used for other purposes, but my concern is if it is designed ONLY for another purpose, then I might want to look for clarification.

[Tuba4]

Originally Posted by SteveGPage

An update:

[G21]Robots may extend one appendage up to 14 in. beyond a single edge of their frame perimeter at any time.
Violation: Foul for exceeding size allotments; Technical-Foul for continuous or repeated violations.


These appendages are intended for use in manipulating Basketballs and/or Bridges. A Robot may have multiple extension devices onboard, but only one may be deployed at a given time.

All portions of an appendage that are outside the Frame Perimeter must be contiguous with each other. Very brief violations of the contiguity requirement as a single appendage is being extended or retracted will not be penalized.

This is good news. It should put the question to rest for most kinds of appendages. I am not certain how it will impact ball harvesters using a rotating drum with surgical tubing whips, which seem to be a common choice. I think they may still not be legal. Clearly if the drum does not extend beyond the frame perimeter and only the "whips" do, that would not be legal. And if your drum was able to move and extend, then it would need to retract in order to extend a bridge appendage.

[Nick Lawrence]

I love common sense.

-Nick