Duct Tape? Anyone?

[Jeff Pahl]

As I have to frequently remind the students on my team:

"The only properly engineered use of duct tape is the sealing of air duct."

If you are not sealing air duct (which I have seen duct tape used for on an FRC robot), then you are not using the proper material for the application and you have a design issue.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

I am reflecting on a discussion on this subject with a GDC member following a post I made on this subject. The topic was that duct tape has never been disallowed on FRC robots. However, there have been limits on the use of adhesive tape from year to year. The thought that it was illegal is a myth, based on the statements from Dean and Woodie, that if you think about other solutions, something better looking than duct tape is bound to come up.

(emphasis mine)
The question of duct tape being allowed is a valid one; in fact, it was disallowed - except for labeling purposes, which you encourage - in years past.

Originally Posted by 2006 Competition Manual

<R33> Adhesive backed tapes are NOT allowed except as follows:
• Velcro tape, any hook and loop tape or double-sided sticky foam may be used for attaching components
to the robot.
• Reflective tape may be used with optical sensors in small amounts.
• Adhesive backed tape and labels may be used for labeling purposes on wires, cables, pneumatic lines, etc.
• Electrical tape may be used as an electrical insulator.

[fox46]

I agree with Taylor- I seem to recall being quite annoyed that we couldn't use double sided tape to secure non-functional panels with logos on them as far back as 2002/2003 I believe (though I could be wrong).

[Mark McLeod]

Originally Posted by Jeff Pahl

"The only properly engineered use of duct tape is the sealing of air duct."

Around here contractors don't even use it for ducts, because it disintegrates too quickly from the duct temperatures and exposure.

[seg9585]

It's been ingrained in me over the years that duct tape is always a big no-no on FRC robots, so I always assumed it was explicitly disallowed by the rules.

However, this year the students on my team wanted to use an 8" diameter air duct angling elbow as a passive angler for our shooting assembly and wanted to secure and smoothen the elbow joiners with ducting tape (to which I reacted -- illegal!!!). However, after looking over the rules and realizing that this is not actually an illegal material, this application seems a bit more appropriate to me.

[Clark Pappas]

It would help if we knew what the application was. Covering some bases...
*If you want to secure down a component: I'd say go to a local hardware store and get some Velcro. My two cents.
*If you want hold frame members together: Not at all stable, and probably not safe. Find a different way to attach them.
*As a covering: Id say ok on anything that doesn't involve electricity.
*As a marker: We do it with our wiring. A parent gave us some gaffers tape, and we mark different wires and components with a certain colored tape, so we can easily determine which thing is attached where. Although it isn't necessarily duct tape, duct tape can be used in the same manner. besides, as far as I know, duct tape colors are far more widely available than, say, electrical tape colors.

[WizenedEE]

Originally Posted by Clark Pappas

It would help if we knew what the application was. Covering some bases...
*If you want to secure down a component: I'd say go to a local hardware store and get some Velcro. My two cents.

How do do you attach the Velcro? I fail to see how stick-backed velcro is any better than duct tape.

We're using a bit of duct tape as a hinge for a low-load part. I can't think of an alternative to it that would work as well,

[ehobel]

Originally Posted by Jeff Pahl

As I have to frequently remind the students on my team:

"The only properly engineered use of duct tape is the sealing of air duct."

If you are not sealing air duct (which I have seen duct tape used for on an FRC robot), then you are not using the proper material for the application and you have a design issue.

Actually, you should not use duct tape to seal an air duct.
http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/...tape-HVAC.html

[GaryVoshol]

A few years ago the rules were changed to allow tape. It might have been the year after the "non-stick pad vs. non-stick tape" debacle. (If a product was labeled as a non-stick pad it was allowed, but if it was labeled as tape it was not. Talk about lawyering the rules.)

Anyway, I remember someone from the GDC, probably Dave Lavery, commenting that while tape was now legal don't go overboard and make them ban it again.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by WizenedEE

How do do you attach the Velcro? I fail to see how stick-backed velcro is any better than duct tape.

Have you used it? We've been securing our electronics with sticky-backed velcro for years, and it works brilliantly. The industrial strength stuff is quite awesome.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

Have you used it? We've been securing our electronics with sticky-backed velcro for years, and it works brilliantly. The industrial strength stuff is quite awesome.

+1. Velcro also gives an added layer of electrical isolation.
If FRC trusts Velcro enough to keep the field elements secure while six 150 lb robots slam into them, we'll trust it with our Victors.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Clark,
Electrical tape is actually available in at least all EIA colors. The 3M color wheel, Digikey part STD-C-ND, although a little expensive is ideal for wire marking.
Joe, I am not sure using duct tape for a hinge could be considered anything other than a fastener. There has got to be a better device.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Mark McLeod

Around here contractors don't even use it for ducts, because it disintegrates too quickly from the duct temperatures and exposure.

It's ironic that duct tape will fail over time and shouldn't be used for taping ducts. All good HVAC guys use aluminum foil tape.

I would always bring a roll of duct tape for emergency repairs at competition but would never use it to build the robot other than prototyping.

[martin417]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

I am reflecting on a discussion on this subject with a GDC member following a post I made on this subject. The topic was that duct tape has never been disallowed on FRC robots. However, there have been limits on the use of adhesive tape from year to year. The thought that it was illegal is a myth, based on the statements from Dean and Woodie, that if you think about other solutions, something better looking than duct tape is bound to come up. In other words duct tape is cool, it just doesn't look right on an FRC robot. My statement on it's not being a fastener is based on the fact that it pulls apart. It is simply not the same as a threaded fastener, a wire tie, or a rivet. It should not be considered a insulating material either. Many products contain metal and are actually conductive and there is no way to distinguish conductive from non-conductive by sight.

Never been disallowed? I know that in 2008 we used aluminum tape to seal our vacuum assembly, and was told by the head inspector that no tape of any kind other than electrical tape used as an insulator was allowed on the bot. We had to remove (as much as possible) the tape, and ended up using strip caulk (dum-dum) to seal things. It was messy, looked much worse, and NOT the best solution, but we passed inspection.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Martin,
The reference is specifically to Duct Tape as always disallowed. However in the 2008 the following rule was in effect.

<R38> Adhesive backed tapes shall not be used as a structural fastener, or to connect two or more parts together. Adhesive backed tapes may only be used as follows:
Textured or coated tapes may be used to provide an alternate surface finish or treatment to a
portion of the ROBOT.
Velcro tape, any hook and loop tape or double-sided sticky foam may be used for attaching components to the ROBOT.
Reflective tape may be used with optical sensors in small amounts.
Adhesive backed tape and labels may be used for labeling purposes on wires, cables,
pneumatic lines, etc.
Electrical tape may be used as an electrical insulator.
I think that bullet one may have covered your use of aluminum tape. Was there something else in the discussion I am missing?