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Unread 16-02-2012, 19:24
Brandon_L Brandon_L is offline
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Rule about being in the key

We know that if you are in the key no other robot can interfere with you but we wanted to know if it means just any part of your robot or the whole robot has to be in the key
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Unread 16-02-2012, 19:30
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Re: Rule about being in the key

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon_L View Post
We know that if you are in the key no other robot can interfere with you but we wanted to know if it means just any part of your robot or the whole robot has to be in the key
Quote:
Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.
Violation: Foul; Technical-Foul for purposeful, consequential contact.
Emphasis mine.
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Unread 16-02-2012, 19:34
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Re: Rule about being in the key

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Emphasis mine.
Were aware of that, but is it while your ENTIRE robot is in the key, or just some part?
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Unread 16-02-2012, 19:38
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Re: Rule about being in the key

It says "contact" with the key so as long as the bot is touching the key they are protected from being hit.

Any part of the bot.
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Unread 16-02-2012, 20:41
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Re: Rule about being in the key

I could see refs calling it if the shooting robot is over the key but a wheel/appendage is not physically touching the ground inside the key. You may want a clarification from a ref or might be covered in drivers' meeting.
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Unread 16-02-2012, 20:45
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Re: Rule about being in the key

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon_L View Post
Were aware of that, but is it while your ENTIRE robot is in the key, or just some part?
Brandon, by the letter of the rule, while some part of your robot is touching the key, you are protected from contact from your opponents.

There isn't really any grey area on this one - touch the key with a wheel, a bridge manip, an appendage, a ziptie, etc, and you're protected.

________


Quote:
Originally Posted by gurellia53 View Post
I could see refs calling it if the shooting robot is over the key but a wheel/appendage is not physically touching the ground inside the key. You may want a clarification from a ref or might be covered in drivers' meeting.
IMO, if the GDC intended for this rule to be interpreted this way, they would've said something like: "
Robots may not touch an opponent Robot breaking the vertical plane defined by the edges of it's Key, Alley, or Bridge." That's just my interpretation based on how the GDC seems to write rules, though as you may know, they can change over night.
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Last edited by thefro526 : 16-02-2012 at 20:48.
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Unread 16-02-2012, 22:28
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Re: Rule about being in the key

This rule is pretty much identical to a rule from Triple Play. You had to physically touch the protected area then, so you're going to have to physically touch the protected area now. I recommend a few zipties hanging down from the edges of your robot. If the refs see something like that on your robot then they'll start assuming you're in contact with the key once the edge of your robot goes over it.
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Unread 16-02-2012, 22:35
Lil' Lavery Lil' Lavery is offline
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Re: Rule about being in the key

Quote:
Originally Posted by gurellia53 View Post
I could see refs calling it if the shooting robot is over the key but a wheel/appendage is not physically touching the ground inside the key. You may want a clarification from a ref or might be covered in drivers' meeting.
As Kevin mentioned, zip-ties! Or anything else "dangling" beneath your robot's corners to help ensure contact.
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Unread 16-02-2012, 22:56
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Re: Rule about being in the key

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik View Post
This rule is pretty much identical to a rule from Triple Play. You had to physically touch the protected area then, so you're going to have to physically touch the protected area now. I recommend a few zipties hanging down from the edges of your robot. If the refs see something like that on your robot then they'll start assuming you're in contact with the key once the edge of your robot goes over it.
Better hope they can't reverse direction and end up outside your frame perimeter-you'll have more than one appendage deployed
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Unread 16-02-2012, 23:02
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Re: Rule about being in the key

so a good strategy is to hang out by the key and then bump into an opponent's robot as they go by. they get the penalty--easy way to score some points.
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Unread 16-02-2012, 23:05
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Re: Rule about being in the key

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
Better hope they can't reverse direction and end up outside your frame perimeter-you'll have more than one appendage deployed
See, that's why you inset them a little and trim them to barely long enough to touch the floor. And then assume the refs give you the benefit of the doubt that they're touching. If I have spare time at regionals, I'm probably going to wander around with a bag of zipties and flush cutters and make everyone's lives easier and less stressful.


Also, you forgot that if they extend below the bottom of your wheels at any moment, they're the new bottom of your robot and your bumpers might suddenly be out of the bumper zone.
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Unread 16-02-2012, 23:08
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Re: Rule about being in the key

Quote:
Originally Posted by smclean1969 View Post
so a good strategy is to hang out by the key and then bump into an opponent's robot as they go by. they get the penalty--easy way to score some points.
*cough*
Quote:
[G28]Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.
Violation: Foul; Technical-Foul for purposeful, consequential contact.
[G44] Generally, a rule violation by an Alliance that was directly caused by actions of the opposing Alliance will not be penalized. Rule [G28] is an exception to this rule.
[G45] Strategies exploiting Rule [G44] are not in the spirit of the FRC and are not allowed.
Violation: Technical-Foul and Red Card
More like an easy way to score some red cards, amirite?

Yeah, if you do this, they're going to red card you on about the third or fourth "accidental" bump. And the second bump in subsequent matches.
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Unread 16-02-2012, 23:39
Brandon_L Brandon_L is offline
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Re: Rule about being in the key

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefro526 View Post
Brandon, by the letter of the rule, while some part of your robot is touching the key, you are protected from contact from your opponents.

There isn't really any grey area on this one - touch the key with a wheel, a bridge manip, an appendage, a ziptie, etc, and you're protected.
Thanksbro. The kids were wondering and apparently couldn't find it in the manual, and I usually leave my account open for them, so that was them haha.

Thanks everyone!
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Unread 17-02-2012, 09:54
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Re: Rule about being in the key

Just remember, there are many defensive strategies that they can still do. They can block your shots. They can obscure your camera's vision. They can generate noise that interferes with your sensors (though there may be other rules against this, I'm just not sure). They can block your drivers vision as to where the robot actually is. And so on...
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Unread 17-02-2012, 11:26
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Re: Rule about being in the key

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilhitern1 View Post
They can generate noise that interferes with your sensors (though there may be other rules against this, I'm just not sure).
Pretty sure this wouldn't be legal.

Quote:
[R08]
Robot parts shall not be made from hazardous materials, be unsafe, cause an unsafe condition, or interfere with the operation of other Robots.
B. Speakers, sirens, air horns, or other audio devices that generate sound at a level sufficient to be a distraction
The other things you mentioned are up for debate though, may get called for the same violation considering it says "interfere with the operation of other Robots." One could say if you build a robot that is a giant wall to block the view of the operators you could have a "part" that "interferes" with the "operation" of that robot. But, like I said, its debatable.
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