Autonomous Buzzer Beater

[Mr. Lim]

CD,

I know the *only* place to ask for rules clarification is the official Q&A.

Unfortunately, my team's Q&A account has been stuck on "question pending" since the beginning of build season, and I can't ask any more.

My question is:

How many points are awarded for a shot that is already in the air when autonomous period ends, but scores shortly afterwards?

This would be for an "autonomous buzzer beater."

My interpretation of the rules says 3pts.

My gut says it should be 6pts, in the best interests of the game.

Any idea?

[RufflesRidge]

Originally Posted by Mr. Lim

My interpretation of the rules says 3pts.

I would agree with this interpretation.

The problem with trying to do anything else is that the automated scoring system has no way to determine when the ball left the robot, it only knows when it passes through the sensors.

[Greg Leighton]

There's an answer to this on Q & A.

Q. If a robot shoots a ball during hybrid mode that enters the hoop after teleop begins, will the 3pt bonus still apply?
FRC1741 2012-01-30
A. Any Basketball that enters the Hoop during the Hybrid period will receive the Hybrid bonus.

Hope that helps, seems pretty definitive.

[Steven Donow]

Per Q&A response to a questions asked by FRC1741 under <G39>:

Game - The Game » Scoring » G39
Q. If a robot shoots a ball during hybrid mode that enters the hoop after teleop begins, will the 3pt bonus still apply? FRC1741 2012-01-30
A. Any Basketball that enters the Hoop during the Hybrid period will receive the Hybrid bonus.

This implies that it must enter the hoop DURING hybrid to COUNT as hybrid points.

[Greg Leighton]

I really don't like this answer from the GDC though, I wish they had looked to basketball for the way to handle this scenario. In basketball you look at whether or not the ball has left the hand of the player (in this case: contact with the robot) when the buzzer goes off (end of hybrid). Personally I think this might be an easier way to call it then whether or not the ball has entered the hoop before the buzzer. Then you have questions like: does the ball have to be in the hoop entirely at the end of hybrid or just entering the hoop? I would find that pretty hard to call. Being that robots in the act of shooting will only be in contact with the ball for a short period, I think this would be much easier to call.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Greg Leighton

...I think this might be an easier way to call it...

The problem is that it's not a "call". It's an automated ball counter that detects when a ball has gone through the hoop.

[Greg Leighton]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

The problem is that it's not a "call". It's an automated ball counter that detects when a ball has gone through the hoop.

Sorry don't know much about this, where is it mounted? How does it work? Is there somewhere I can see this? I honestly imagined they would count scores as they entered the chute returning them to the inbounders, as I couldn't imagine them mounting a sensor at the rim, I didn't investigate though.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

The problem is that it's not a "call". It's an automated ball counter that detects when a ball has gone through the hoop.

So if the ball enters the hoop, but hasn't yet tripped the sensor (as it's at the bottom of the chute) will it be counted for autonomous?

*According to the Q&A it should.

[Jared Russell]

The counter is at the end of the chute that returns scored baskets to the inbounder station.

However, given the GDC's answer, I am not sure how this will actually be implemented. Does the sensor need to be triggered during the hybrid period? Because a reasonably astute observer would say that there are instances where the ball will certainly be in the hoop, but not yet fed to the counter when hybrid expires. Or is there a delay...say a second or two...programmed in?

[Greg Leighton]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

So if the ball enters the hoop, but hasn't yet tripped the sensor (as it's at the bottom of the chute) will it be counted for autonomous?

*According to the Q&A it should.

Originally Posted by Jared341

The counter is at the end of the chute that returns scored baskets to the inbounder station.

However, given the GDC's answer, I am not sure how this will actually be implemented. Does the sensor need to be triggered during the hybrid period? Because a reasonably astute observer would say that there are instances where the ball will certainly be in the hoop, but not yet fed to the counter when hybrid expires. Or is there a delay...say a second or two...programmed in?

This was exactly my fear, which lead me to believe refs may have to "call" whether or not it was a scored basket or not, furthermore, I did hear of balls lodging themselves in the return chutes, I don't know if that is a problem or concern anymore but that could also cause a close call if the ball needed to pass by the sensor to be counted as a score in hybrid. Now that I've scanned over the field drawings again, I think it may be time for another Q & A question.