Basketball Traditions at FIRST Events

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Madison

This is stupid.

If we win an event and can take the net, I'll mail FIRST $5 and install a new net myself.

Maybe any team that believes they have a shot of winning an event can bring their own replacement net and replace the cut net themselves once the moment has passed?

I wouldn't be opposed to spending the time to replace a net if my team were given the chance to cut down the net on the field that they just won on.

[alectronic]

Hate to spoil the fun, but they have already told us during volunteer training this year specifically that no teams are allowed to cut the net down after the event. Even if they offer replacements or such. As Jane said, they are part of the field and regardless of tradition, they belong to FIRST.
At least that's what they have told us in training thus far.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

The nets are a part of the field. Has it ever been ok to vandalize the field in the name of a 'winning tradition'? I'm asking, not being sarcastic.

What comes to mind is the rush for the leftover tubes at CHPs a few years back and what a nightmare that was. Cutting the nets could be pretty interesting regarding crowd control. Then what would the damage costs be? Again, I'm just asking.

Alternate idea, buy a toy hoop and cut the net. You absorb the costs and have a net as a symbol that you can use for display purposes with your trophy and medals. Brand it in advance and use it as an incentive to be able to cut it at your event(s).

Jane

Yes. I'm not much for basketball, but judging by the videos people have posted it is a time honored tradition to "cut the net" if you win. A little bit of googling tells you that championship teams do this in every basketball league from high school through the NBA. Clearly it is okay by them.

How is it interesting crowd control? It's the winning teams, it isn't saying "anyone with two feet come down and take a net!" Granted basketball teams are a lot small than your typical basketball team, so have someone cut it down and distribute the strings later. For some of the really big teams you might even have to cut the strings up!

To me, cutting a net out of toy would be like carrying around a Stanley Cup I made out of cardboard and aluminum foil. Sure it looks the part... but was it there? No, and being there was part of what made it special. I still have my alliance captain bib from when my team won our first regional, and if there were nets they'd let us keep they would've been even better mementos.

Just my 2 cents. ($5?)

[EricLeifermann]

Cutting the net down is a BASKETBALL tradition. We are not playing basketball this year, we are playing a game based on basketball called Rebound Rumble.

Why do we need to bring a tradition from a different sport into FRC? Why don't we come up with something more creative to celebrate than copying something else. We just design and built robots in 6 weeks to play this game I think we can come up with something better that cutting down the nets.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

Yes. I'm not much for basketball, but judging by the videos people have posted it is a time honored tradition to "cut the net" if you win. A little bit of googling tells you that championship teams do this in every basketball league from high school through the NBA. Clearly it is okay by them.

How is it interesting crowd control? It's the winning teams, it isn't saying "anyone with two feet come down and take a net!" Granted basketball teams are a lot small than your typical basketball team, so have someone cut it down and distribute the strings later. For some of the really big teams you might even have to cut the strings up!

To me, cutting a net out of toy would be like carrying around a Stanley Cup I made out of cardboard and aluminum foil. Sure it looks the part... but was it there? No, and being there was part of what made it special. I still have my alliance captain bib from when my team won our first regional, and if there were nets they'd let us keep they would've been even better mementos.

Just my 2 cents. ($5?)

Who is on the court when a member cuts the net at a game? Or... back that up - who rushes the court when a team member cuts the net at a game? There would be 3 nets and 3 teams, minimal, on the field.

From what I've seen from a few regionals, they are still in need for volunteers to help with their events. Will volunteers be in place and be available to help with the passion, excitement, and craziness that could stem from cutting the nets? What happens to the nets on the other side of the field? Do those get cut (trashed), too? Who controls that and how? And while teams are cutting their nets, are they going to be doing a victory dance on the bridges, too?

I've had a little experience with crowd control during regionals and I'm not a fan of large groups of people who don't respect crowd control and create potentially dangerous situations because of what they want to do when they want to do it, individually, and, as a crowd.

Jane

[davidthefat]

I do not know how some individuals would take this gesture of "cutting the net off". It has been made clear to me that FIRST is not like competitive sports in the past and while the tradition sounds fine, it might be deemed as offensive to some.

I personally would see it as very disrespectful; it just sounds like rubbing salt into the wound. It might be because I hate losing, but that's just me.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

How is it interesting crowd control? It's the winning teams, it isn't saying "anyone with two feet come down and take a net!" Granted basketball teams are a lot small than your typical basketball team, so have someone cut it down and distribute the strings later. For some of the really big teams you might even have to cut the strings up!

You'd have to announce that it was only for the winning teams. Even then, you'd get the "I won X, can I cut down the net?".

Little story that I referred to earlier: At the 2009 L.A. Regional, the field crew had packed up the unused (and some used) orbit balls into bags before the awards ceremonies; the orbit balls would go into the trailer with the field. A couple of people came and asked if they could have one, to which the answer was "nope, they're going to the next event". But then a team came over with a "higher-up", who said that we should give them some of the orbit balls from the field due to them having exactly zero where they were from. OK, so we open up the bags to give them a few... and then came the "why do they get them?" and "I want one!" from other teams. That was not fun to control.

That's what I'm afraid of for any net-cutting. And that's probably why FIRST has told their volunteers not to allow it.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by davidthefat

I do not know how some individuals would take this gesture of "cutting the net off". It has been made clear to me that FIRST is not like competitive sports in the past and while the tradition sounds fine, it might be deemed as offensive to some.

I personally would see it as very disrespectful; it just sounds like rubbing salt into the wound. It might be because I hate losing, but that's just me.

Guess we better cancel that whole awards ceremony thing then. No celebrating allowed!

[Lil' Lavery]

It's almost upsetting how little appreciation the average CD member has towards competitive athletics. The program is modeled after sports for a reason, and this game is directly mimicking a particular sport. To see students, alumni, and mentors characterizing celebrations as "vandalism" and that following traditions is unimaginative is depressing.

Perhaps we should get rid of the award presentations, since they're keeping volunteers at the arena longer, too?

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

Who is on the court when a member cuts the net at a game? Or... back that up - who rushes the court when a team member cuts the net at a game? There would be 3 nets and 3 teams, minimal, on the field.

From what I've seen from a few regionals, they are still in need for volunteers to help with their events. Will volunteers be in place and be available to help with the passion, excitement, and craziness that could stem from cutting the nets? What happens to the nets on the other side of the field? Do those get cut (trashed), too? Who controls that and how? And while teams are cutting their nets, are they going to be doing a victory dance on the bridges, too?

I've had a little experience with crowd control during regionals and I'm not a fan of large groups of people who don't respect crowd control and create potentially dangerous situations because of what they want to do when they want to do it, individually, and, as a crowd.

As a Boston sports fan, I have a healthy respect for unruly crowds too. I agree with you, all of those people on the field rioting like Vancouver last summer is probably not a good thing. Don't teams already come onto the field at the end to take pictures on the field? I know when we won us and our alliance partners were the last people out the door. (sorry field crew! )

I think the crowd control questions are ones I can't answer -- FIRST would have to. And since it seems like they've already thought about this and decided they'd rather not let teams take the nets, that's what the official answer will be.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

It's almost upsetting how little appreciation the average CD member has towards competitive athletics. The program is modeled after sports for a reason, and this game is directly mimicking a particular sport. To see students, alumni, and mentors characterizing celebrations as "vandalism" and that following traditions is unimaginative is depressing.

Perhaps we should get rid of the award presentations, since they're keeping volunteers at the arena longer, too?

Sean,

If you are referring to some of my comments in your post, I'd like to clarify a couple of things:

1. I can't accept that a piece of the field is up for grabs. As far as I know, it never has been so why would it be now?

2. There aren't enough volunteers for some of the events. That was my point. It wasn't about staying longer. In the past, when I've done crowd control, I have been pulled from other positions to do it.

I won't comment any more in this thread.
Jane

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

It's almost upsetting how little appreciation the average CD member has towards competitive athletics. The program is modeled after sports for a reason, and this game is directly mimicking a particular sport. To see students, alumni, and mentors characterizing celebrations as "vandalism" and that following traditions is unimaginative is depressing.

Perhaps we should get rid of the award presentations, since they're keeping volunteers at the arena longer, too?

I have lots of appreciation for competitive athletics, I used to play lots of different sports in school, and continue to play them for fun now that I'm no longer in school. But that doesn't mean that FRC should copy the "big boys" and do what they do. Lets do something different and creative to celebrate our victories.

[davidthefat]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

It's almost upsetting how little appreciation the average CD member has towards competitive athletics. The program is modeled after sports for a reason, and this game is directly mimicking a particular sport. To see students, alumni, and mentors characterizing celebrations as "vandalism" and that following traditions is unimaginative is depressing.

Perhaps we should get rid of the award presentations, since they're keeping volunteers at the arena longer, too?

I would have to say that there are different types of celebrating. Some would get butt drunk to celebrate, some just smile. I am in no way calling the net cutting equivalent to getting drunk, but I am just trying to bring up the point that not all celebrations are equal. There are varying degrees.

I mean it was a celebration to scalp the heads of fallen enemies for many societies, others shrunk heads instead, or may be even cannibalism. Now, it would not be fine for me to go up to your robot and rip out the orange light to signify my dominance. Again, really has nothing to do with the net cutting, but people will interpret it differently.

I feel that the net cutting will not be handled correctly by teenagers. Not calling all teenagers bad, but it just takes one sour grape to put a bad image. What I imagine happening is a teen running around with the net. Sure, again, not calling celebration to be bad, but I have always found it disrespectful to celebrate wildly in front of your opponent. Constraint will be needed.

[D.Allred]

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

Cutting the net down is a BASKETBALL tradition. We are not playing basketball this year, we are playing a game based on basketball called Rebound Rumble.

Why do we need to bring a tradition from a different sport into FRC? Why don't we come up with something more creative to celebrate than copying something else. We just design and built robots in 6 weeks to play this game I think we can come up with something better that cutting down the nets.

I agree with Eric. FIRST teams already have great traditions of their own which makes these competitions special for me. I'm sure teams will find a way to blend their traditions with this year's theme.

It's time to lighten the mood with a history lesson. Cutting down nets is a great basketball tradition usually attributed Everett Case, head coach of NC State after WWII. He brought the tradition to the collegiate level from his days as a high school head coach from Indiana.

Frankly, I'm more afraid that Michael Buffer's signature "Let's get ready to rumble!" pronouncement will be overused. It might be a good introduction for Einstein though.

[barn34]

Again, I can see both sides of this discussion have equal points of validity. However, as a huge basketball fan and former player, it would be extremely awesome to be able to cut down the net if we happened to win our regional. It's one of those things that I've seen done dozens and dozens of times and it gives me goosebumps every time I see it. Having this translated over to this years competition, at least in some symbolistic way, would be good enough for me, even if that doesn't mean we get to physically cut the nets ourselves.

If the traditional net cutting ritual is still not allowed for whatever reason that FIRST decides, providing a net with the trophy/banner for the teams of the winning alliance should be a good compromise. That way the respective team mentor(s) can cut up the net with their own team members on their own time (or decide to keep whole to display with their trophy) and not cause any of the issues people are concerned with. The winning team would donate the money for the ceremonial net, if needed, and then no time or actual field equipment was 'vandalized' and nobody can be 'offended' by a traditional sports ritual invading FIRST. Would anyone have an issue with this?