Teams: Check Your Bumpers

[Brandon Holley]

As I read this thread, I began chuckling to myself because stepping back and thinking about what we are discussing, it seems insane to me. There are so many rules that govern bumpers, yet questions still remain.

Here's one thought I had regarding bumpers:
There is a requirement for bumpers to be visible on all 4 sides of a teams robot. This seems like a pretty decent requirement when you consider what it would be primarily used for, identify teams. Identifying teams from the stands, while important, tends to take a backseat to identifying teams on the field for referee/FTA purposes. However, it is my understanding that penalties will not be tracked this year on a robot to robot basis. Technical fouls/yellow/red cards will be assigned to teams but general penalties occurring on the field will not be tracked at all. The penalty will simply be flagged at the time it occurs and the penalty assessed to the offending alliance.

I guess my grief comes into play identifying a robot on the field. Do all 4 sides need to be 100% absolutely crystal clear for the refs to do their job and for teams to identify other teams from the stands? It seems many teams have had issues squishing the numbers onto the front/back of their long configuration robots. Would it be an absolute travesty if the numbers in those situations were a bit smaller, or a little less clear? There would presumably be at least 2 other sides with very clear numbering. Of course all of this assumes you have direct line of sight to the numbered bumper, which may not be true if the robots behind a bridge/fender/teammate/opponent.

I guess I just find the rules a little excessive with regards to numbering, especially when considering these numbers will not be used for on the fly penalty tracking.

A fair alternative:
In a case where a team cannot fit a number on the bumper easily, allow teams to place the team number on the robot itself somewhere above where the number on the bumper would be expected. I would think many teams could make this happen with relative ease.

\end venting session

-Brando

[Cal578]

Originally Posted by jyh947

Personally, I have to say that getting 4 numbers (that arn't 1's) is very hard. I honestly had to make the numbers cut into each other in order to make the font fit nicely.
[

JYH, I can't tell the scale in your picture, but I must say that I'm concerned your frame and bumper might not be legal. How long is the frame on each side of the opening, and how wide is the opening itself? It looks to me like your bumper is 8" long measured on the outside, and only about 6" long on the frame. You must have 8" of frame from each corner, and 8" of bumper covering it, per [R27] and [R33]. The bumper in the corner region doesn't count toward the 8".

I hope I'm just misjudging the scale in your picture, and your robot is perfectly legal. But since it doesn't look that way to me, it would be unkind of me to not say anything. What I can see of your robot looks sharp, and I wish you the best of luck!

[nitneylion452]

Originally Posted by Steve Ketron

I guess this means any team that has an object that at anytime blocks or covers their team number is also in violation. (It is not "clearly visable") (I know this is another question waiting for a reply)

Man I would hate to have an object that covers up my entire side of the robot. Sounds like a lot of teams are also going to be redoing their robots.

This has also been addressed.

Q. Can the bumpers be covered at any point by a dynamic appendage on the robot?

A. There are no rules prohibiting this.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Cal578

It looks to me like your bumper is 8" long measured on the outside, and only about 6" long on the frame...I hope I'm just misjudging the scale in your picture, and your robot is perfectly legal.

I had the same concern about a neighboring team's robot when I saw it, and I had to actually measure the bumper to convince myself it was legal. Eight inches of bumper is surprisingly short.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I had the same concern about a neighboring team's robot when I saw it, and I had to actually measure the bumper to convince myself it was legal. Eight inches of bumper is surprisingly short.

I know I measured our own bumpers before we bagged them to make sure... as the mentor who helped build them put it, they are "barely long enough". I rephrased that for him - they were produced exactly to spec!

[jyh947]

Originally Posted by Cal578

JYH, I can't tell the scale in your picture, but I must say that I'm concerned your frame and bumper might not be legal. How long is the frame on each side of the opening, and how wide is the opening itself? It looks to me like your bumper is 8" long measured on the outside, and only about 6" long on the frame. You must have 8" of frame from each corner, and 8" of bumper covering it, per [R27] and [R33]. The bumper in the corner region doesn't count toward the 8".

I hope I'm just misjudging the scale in your picture, and your robot is perfectly legal. But since it doesn't look that way to me, it would be unkind of me to not say anything. What I can see of your robot looks sharp, and I wish you the best of luck!

The frame perimeter was extended by one inch, from 6.25 inches, to satisfy the rules.

[PayneTrain]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

As I read this thread, I began chuckling to myself because stepping back and thinking about what we are discussing, it seems insane to me. There are so many rules that govern bumpers, yet questions still remain.

Here's one thought I had regarding bumpers:
There is a requirement for bumpers to be visible on all 4 sides of a teams robot. This seems like a pretty decent requirement when you consider what it would be primarily used for, identify teams. Identifying teams from the stands, while important, tends to take a backseat to identifying teams on the field for referee/FTA purposes. However, it is my understanding that penalties will not be tracked this year on a robot to robot basis. Technical fouls/yellow/red cards will be assigned to teams but general penalties occurring on the field will not be tracked at all. The penalty will simply be flagged at the time it occurs and the penalty assessed to the offending alliance.

I guess my grief comes into play identifying a robot on the field. Do all 4 sides need to be 100% absolutely crystal clear for the refs to do their job and for teams to identify other teams from the stands? It seems many teams have had issues squishing the numbers onto the front/back of their long configuration robots. Would it be an absolute travesty if the numbers in those situations were a bit smaller, or a little less clear? There would presumably be at least 2 other sides with very clear numbering. Of course all of this assumes you have direct line of sight to the numbered bumper, which may not be true if the robots behind a bridge/fender/teammate/opponent.

I guess I just find the rules a little excessive with regards to numbering, especially when considering these numbers will not be used for on the fly penalty tracking.

A fair alternative:
In a case where a team cannot fit a number on the bumper easily, allow teams to place the team number on the robot itself somewhere above where the number on the bumper would be expected. I would think many teams could make this happen with relative ease.

\end venting session

-Brando

I think I giant number running u the chute of an intake system can be just as obvious as bumpers, but it is what it is.

[Steve Ketron]

Q. Can the bumpers be covered at any point by a dynamic appendage on the robot?

A. There are no rules prohibiting this.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If you can not have fragmented or obsured numbers because you want judges/refs to be able to see your number at all times/angles, then how can you allow a robot to block the numbers and the refs/judges can't see anything. With some of these dynamic appendages that teams have a fragmented number makes it much easier to read than a squished number. What is the point of saying the numbers must be clearly seen from 100 ft away if you allow it to be covered up and hard to see from 15ft away?

[Duke461]

Originally Posted by Steve Ketron

Q. Can the bumpers be covered at any point by a dynamic appendage on the robot?

A. There are no rules prohibiting this.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If you can not have fragmented or obsured numbers because you want judges/refs to be able to see your number at all times/angles, then how can you allow a robot to block the numbers and the refs/judges can't see anything. With some of these dynamic appendages that teams have a fragmented number makes it much easier to read than a squished number. What is the point of saying the numbers must be clearly seen from 100 ft away if you allow it to be covered up and hard to see from 15ft away?

Maybe someone should make a robot that purposely follows the bumper rules exactly, yet all 4 sides get completely obscured and no one can ever see the numbers.

I'm kidding, of course.

But seriously, why does FIRST need to this? It is so superfluous!

Tangent question (and this is just a thought, my team did not do this): Would one be allowed to securely/rigidly mount a piece of polycarbonate, or some mounted "plate" to the bumper, that actually extended past the 8 inches of bumper into the "U" area such that i could much more easily write out a number?

Just my thoughts, complaints, jokes, concerns, or something......
-Duke

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by Duke461

Tangent question (and this is just a thought, my team did not do this): Would one be allowed to securely/rigidly mount a piece of polycarbonate, or some mounted "plate" to the bumper, that actually extended past the 8 inches of bumper into the "U" area such that i could much more easily write out a number?

Just my thoughts, complaints, jokes, concerns, or something......
-Duke

Wouldn't this defeat the purpose of having a 'U' shaped opening, That would effectively make it an 'O' again.

[vraimondi94]

some of the bumper rules are so meaningless but what can we do other then just follow them.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Steve Ketron

Q. Can the bumpers be covered at any point by a dynamic appendage on the robot?

A. There are no rules prohibiting this.

This makes absolutely no sense to me. If you can not have fragmented or obsured numbers because you want judges/refs to be able to see your number at all times/angles, then how can you allow a robot to block the numbers and the refs/judges can't see anything. With some of these dynamic appendages that teams have a fragmented number makes it much easier to read than a squished number. What is the point of saying the numbers must be clearly seen from 100 ft away if you allow it to be covered up and hard to see from 15ft away?

Make sure you never drive up against the fender, or put your bumper under the bridge, or drive anywhere near another robot.

[PayneTrain]

I don't want to offend or call anyone out, but 340 and 341 have appendages that will likely cover up the ENTIRE front bumper almost the ENTIRE match if they choose to do so.

I need to stop visiting this thread; bumper rules bum me out.

[nitneylion452]

Originally Posted by PayneTrain

I don't want to offend or call anyone out, but 340 and 341 have appendages that will likely cover up the ENTIRE front bumper almost the ENTIRE match if they choose to do so.

I need to stop visiting this thread; bumper rules bum me out.

I'mma let you finish, but 3167 had one of the best bumpers of all time!


Seriously though, 341's appendage is dynamic and can retract quite quickly from what I've seen in videos. I highly doubt they would fail inspection because of the possibility their bumpers might be covered by their appendage, when there are so many other ways the for the bumpers to be covered, as Joe Ross pointed out.

[Steve Ketron]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

Make sure you never drive up against the fender, or put your bumper under the bridge, or drive anywhere near another robot.

This is exactly my point. Why should a fragmented bumper really matter? When competing, it is almost impossible to see a team number from every point of the field at all times. So I think the GDC really is taking a simple bumper rule and blowing it out of reality. Their reasoning doesn't fit the rule.