Team Update 2/28/12

[Rick]

Maybe I'm missing it, but could anyone find the details on the foul hand signals?

[RufflesRidge]

Originally Posted by Ricksta

Maybe I'm missing it, but could anyone find the details on the foul hand signals?

The wording they used is goofy, they didn't mean in Section 3, they literally meant under it on the Comp. Manual page on the USFIRST website. Here's the direct link: http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default...andSignals.pdf

[Taylor]

http://www.usfirst.org/sites/default/files/HandSignals.pdf

[johnr]

Please be kind to your refs. I tried helping ref basketball acouple of times. It is not easy and they will not catch everything and you don't want them too. Every match would end 0-0. They are trained but they are volunteers. Remember it is a game. Have fun.

[Madison]

I'm happy that FIRST will allow a bit of celebration by teams after a hard-won victory.

I think the real-time penalty process is a joke.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Madison

I think the real-time penalty process is a joke.

I made this point in one of the bumper threads, but I think the stringent requirements on bumpers+numbers doesn't make sense when penalties are not being tracked real time. If we had the bumper issues + tracked penalties, its much more tolerable than what seems like overly constrained rules for no easily recognizable purpose.

-Brando

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Madison

I think the real-time penalty process is a joke.

I'm not disagreeing with this statement.

I think it's an attempt at becoming more like the sports model FRC is trying to emulate. In basketball, we as spectators know the score immediately after the ball goes through the hoop*. We don't have to wait on the referees conferring on whether the basket counted or not or if they're going to count penalties. Scoring and results are real-time and theoretically more exciting**.

*I know, in professional American football, the officials have to verify all scores. Honestly, this system inhales audibly.

**I know, it's exciting to sit on the edge of seats, waiting for the official score. However, this provides an atmosphere of the scores being dependent on the officials rather than the teams' play.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Madison

I'm happy that FIRST will allow a bit of celebration by teams after a hard-won victory.

Just a wee small comment here. I thought that's what teams have been doing for 20 years. The nets add something extra but the teams have been celebrating their successes since way before the nets found their way into the spotlight.

.02

Jane

P.S. Don't get all Mad at me. Travel safe. See you at the Alamo!

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Taylor

I'm not disagreeing with this statement.

I think it's an attempt at becoming more like the sports model FRC is trying to emulate. In basketball, we as spectators know the score immediately after the ball goes through the hoop*. We don't have to wait on the referees conferring on whether the basket counted or not or if they're going to count penalties. Scoring and results are real-time and theoretically more exciting**.

*I know, in professional American football, the officials have to verify all scores. Honestly, this system inhales audibly.

**I know, it's exciting to sit on the edge of seats, waiting for the official score. However, this provides an atmosphere of the scores being dependent on the officials rather than the teams' play.

The bigger problem is that in sports referees have years of experience officiating a game that almost never changes...and they still routinely make brutally wrong calls.

We have a game that nobody has refereed, with volunteer referees, and penalties will be assessed in real time now. I'm really curious how they plan to handle multiple referees signaling the same infraction. It has been very common in the past for more than one ref to see a violation occur and flag it. This is normally resolved after the match when they confer and eliminate the double penalties.

How does this get handled now? Do individual refs signal penalties and then the head ref sorts them out in real time and signals them in to the scorekeeper? Does each ref have a clicker or something that automatically assesses the points?

[edit] I see in the above linked document about hand signals that referees "enter the foul on tablet". What does that mean? tablet like iPad tablet, or tablet of scoring sheets? If the latter, why are they bothering, if fouls will not be tracked after being called?

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Cory

[edit] I see in the above linked document about hand signals that referees "enter the foul on tablet". What does that mean? tablet like iPad tablet, or tablet of scoring sheets? If the latter, why are they bothering, if fouls will not be tracked after being called?

I don't see any harm in answering this. The tablet is a touch screen. We're doing zone reffing, and if we see anything on a border or in someone else's zone, we have wireless microphones to quickly check with the other ref(s). You may see two people signal, but it should be sorted out before it affects the score. We can also subtract (i.e. erase incorrectly entered penalties) quickly via the touchscreen if needed.

If you ask at the driver's meeting, I'm sure your refs would happily cover all this and more.

[Mike Martus]

Has everyone looked at the PDF of the hand signals for the game?

Eleven slides, eleven penalties, eleven signals dispersed from several referees, at different locations - how will any of us be able to keep up with the action.

The refs will have some tired arms......... Do the refs practice in front of a mirror to get the signals right?

How many different signals are there in Basketball or football?

This will be very interesting. A great subject for a music video.

[kjohnson]

Originally Posted by Cory

[edit] I see in the above linked document about hand signals that referees "enter the foul on tablet". What does that mean? tablet like iPad tablet, or tablet of scoring sheets? If the latter, why are they bothering, if fouls will not be tracked after being called?

From the field pictures and documentation I've seen, the referee tablets are the same as the scoring tablets from last season that were placed at each corner of the field.

If Siri is correct (no iPhone joke intended), the Refs having radios is a change from previous years. I'm not sure about all events, but we barely have enough radios for technical personnel, pit admin, queuing, and other event staff. Even when using a zone system and hand signals, I still wonder how accidental double fouls will be avoided.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Mike Martus

Has everyone looked at the PDF of the hand signals for the game?

Eleven slides, eleven penalties, eleven signals dispersed from several referees, at different locations - how will any of us be able to keep up with the action.
[...]

How many different signals are there in Basketball or football?

For football, there are more than 11. (Offside, false start, personal foul, incomplete, catch, touchdown, safety, holding, facemask, out of bounds when catching, roughing, clock run, delay of game, and the down calls are the ones I can think of.)

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by Mike Martus

Has everyone looked at the PDF of the hand signals for the game?

Eleven slides, eleven penalties, eleven signals dispersed from several referees, at different locations - how will any of us be able to keep up with the action.

The refs will have some tired arms......... Do the refs practice in front of a mirror to get the signals right?

How many different signals are there in Basketball or football?

This will be very interesting. A great subject for a music video.

Note that only seven of the signals are actually new, and some of those will be quite rare (being too tall, crossing over the line...) I don't think it will be a problem, especially if you compare it to many sports. I definitely think they should provide a version of that in the program and in the one-page game summary...

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

Just a wee small comment here. I thought that's what teams have been doing for 20 years. The nets add something extra but the teams have been celebrating their successes since way before the nets found their way into the spotlight.

.02

Jane

P.S. Don't get all Mad at me. Travel safe. See you at the Alamo!

+1

Our team won our first regional championship last year. We put together a team dinner that evening in order to celebrate (as opposed to waiting until our end-of-season dinner), and we specifically had a chance to highlight what got us there, and how the team had evolved since its founding. Personally, I think that sort of celebration is worth more than any net cutting.

At work, we have a system of performance reviews. It gives us, as individuals, a chance to recognize what we do well, and what we need to improve upon. Even if you are the best at what you do, you always have room to improve (if you don't, your employer doesn't have room to give you raises).

Even if you aren't out cutting the net, make sure you take the time, as a team, to recognize what went well this season, and what you want to make sure continues on through next season!