Week 1 lessons learned: balancing strategy

Which is better: Auto-balancing, or manual balancing? Also, for those in eliminations, does it matter if your partner's robots can actuate the bridge, or can one or two of them be bridgeless, and have you actuate it for them.

[JesseK]

The choo-choo train methodology seems to work well. The 2936-148-922 alliance at Alamo attempted the three balance and made it look easy the first time. Choo-choo up, easy over. Put the high traction high torque bot as the last one up. They made it seem as if 3-bot balances are as easy (perhaps easier) than 2-bot balances since there's so much mass at the edges (the same effect that helps tight-rope walkers).

[RufflesRidge]

Originally Posted by JesseK

They made it seem as if 3-bot balances are as easy (perhaps easier) than 2-bot balances since there's so much mass at the edges (the same effect that helps tight-rope walkers).

I think 148's bridge leveler also played a factor in that.

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by RufflesRidge

I think 148's bridge leveler also played a factor in that.

Yea, premature post. I saw the balance in The Red Alliance's 6-frame format so I didn't see the details. My bad.

[mac]

Mentor Mac here back from Philadelphia, William Grove. Team 341, Miss Daisey
kick but. 11-0-1 first place. Wins tournment. Scores 5 baskets in hybrid mode. Second game of finals. Blue Allinance shoots five balls at start. They all get stuck in the basket. Game is replayed; they loose.
Be Safe Thomas McCubbin

[GaryVoshol]

How not to balance:

1. Balance one robot with about 40 seconds to go
2. Decide that a second robot will get on the bridge
3. Unbalance the bridge for the second robot to drive up
4. Dither around for 30 seconds trying to get the second robot on the bridge, nearly tipping both robots over
5. Fail to get the bridge balanced
6. Lose the match 3-0

[Koko Ed]

It's not getting the amount of hype as the 148 alliance triple balance but 1477, 231 and 457 had a good strategy of having 457 go over to the other side foo the field and wait for 1477 and 231 to go up on the ramp and use their bumpers to quickly stabilize the ramp. Ii expect many teams to adopt this strategy.

[Alpha Beta]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

It's not getting the amount of hype as the 148 alliance triple balance but 1477, 231 and 457 had a good strategy of having 457 go over to the other side foo the field and wait for 1477 and 231 to go up on the ramp and use their bumpers to quickly stabilize the ramp. Ii expect many teams to adopt this strategy.

Brilliant!

On a not so brilliant note, I saw a match where a robot balanced, and then in the last few seconds a partner taps the bridge (seemingly intentionally) to screw it up. Alliance still wins 4 to 2.

Match 40: http://www.more.net/content/2012-qualification-matches

[DampRobot]

It seems like there are a fair number of teams who go for two (or three in elims) robots balancing when just one (or two) would win the match, and neither teams end up balancing. Maybe people need to corrordinte within their own alliance more. Keep in mind, just win/loss counts for seeding (as well as coopertition bridge), not match score.

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

It's not getting the amount of hype as the 148 alliance triple balance but 1477, 231 and 457 had a good strategy of having 457 go over to the other side foo the field and wait for 1477 and 231 to go up on the ramp and use their bumpers to quickly stabilize the ramp. Ii expect many teams to adopt this strategy.

We have a purpose built mechanism just for this purpose; it may not be as impressive as a triple bot balance, but a garunteed double balance in thirty seconds or less allowed us to play some strategic defense and the rest of the alliance to score until the last part of the match.

I'm surprised so many teams wrote off balancing as easy or simple, and there weren't more dedicated robots or mechanisms.

[RRLedford]

Originally Posted by RogerR

We have a purpose built mechanism just for this purpose; it may not be as impressive as a triple bot balance, but a garunteed double balance in thirty seconds or less allowed us to play some strategic defense and the rest of the alliance to score until the last part of the match.

I'm surprised so many teams wrote off balancing as easy or simple, and there weren't more dedicated robots or mechanisms.

Our whole design is based on the assumption that the winning alliance will be capable of getting consistent and fast 3-bot balancing in elims. We designed our ~33" wide bot to to be able to roll up the side of the bridge with ~20" of our width overhanging into the air, out beyond the side, and only ~13" above the the bridge.

We wanted be able play defense and then use end with our super strong plow arm to get up onto the bridge with ~25 seconds remaining to pre-tilt it toward our partners on the offensive end. We can reach balance in 3 seconds after our first wheel goes up. We then lean the bridge toward them while they continue shooting as long a possible. We can ride along the side rail of the bridge (without holding or gripping it) from end to end, while most of our width is cantilevered out over the edge guide. Our engagement with it guides us accurately (even when wheels slip) so we can stay laterally balanced and avoid tipping off the side.

Once we tilt bridge toward our offensive , our two non-wide (max ~34") partners are able to quickly and smoothly drive right up the bridge, bumper-to-bumper fashion, stopping on either side of the center, as we simultaneously roll up alongside them toward to center and finish the balance. Our bumper can also help align & guide them, if they are having traction issues, since we cannot be moved laterally much (< 1") or be easily pushed or tipped off the side from the way we overlap the aluminum edge guide and from our lowest possible height bumper positions.

We are a day or two from finishing an identical practice bot to give us two full weeks of driving practice, a first for our small team.

-Dick Ledford

[JackS]

We balanced 9 times in matches (two CP bridges) and 4 times on the practice field.

he best strategy seemed to have the first team lay off the controls completely and the other team push them up the bridge. What seemed to work best was releasing the controls the second the bridge began to tip and it would center itself.

Balancing while both teams are moving is next to impossible.

Video Example: Balance starts at 1:20 and ends at 1:35.

[annie1939]

At Kansas City, our team of rookies (FIRST Team 3931) in match 91 was honored to be part of a group that had all 6 robots balanced on the bridges.

It sounds like that was one of the first times at any of the regionals. It was AWESOME and we all got a standing ovation from the crowd.

Now that the "secret" of successful balancing is out, how do you think balancing will change in week two?

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

Now that the "secret" of successful balancing is out, how do you think balancing will change in week two?

It'll get defensed.
Teams were getting attacked at the bump to keep them from setting up the ramp climb.