Balls lodged under bridges??

[waialua359]

This whole ball being stuck issue is something I wished FIRST would have either fixed or noted in an official update with warnings to teams on just how severe it is. Reading or hearing about it from others or even on CD, isnt something that all teams hear.

It doesnt matter if all teams have the same problem at any of the events.
Not all of the teams have the same solutions/designs to remedy the situation if it were to occur.

[Wayne Doenges]

At the Smoky Mountains Regional the referees alowed one member, from each alliance, to go to the side of the field and signal their teammates if there was a ball under the bridge.
I know this doesn't eliminate the ball but at least you know it's there.

[Bjenks548]

Originally Posted by Swampdude

Watch team 231 put a ball under the red bridge. Then 2936 spends the next 10 seconds trying to get it out for the triple balance.

Legal? I think it is because the only rule about balls on the bridge is they can't aid in balancing right?

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

At the Smoky Mountains Regional the referees alowed one member, from each alliance, to go to the side of the field and signal their teammates if there was a ball under the bridge.
I know this doesn't eliminate the ball but at least you know it's there.

This is the second time I've heard this on chiefdelphi (after the fact); however, no one on my team was ever told this. When was this decided, and why wasn't there some sort of drivers meeting to make sure everyone knew?

I can't complain too much about the results, but this could have been a game changer for my team, as we were largely a bridge bot.

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by RogerR

This is the second time I've heard this on chiefdelphi (after the fact); however, no one on my team was ever told this. When was this decided, and why wasn't there some sort of drivers meeting to make sure everyone knew?

I can't complain too much about the results, but this could have been a game changer for my team, as we were largely a bridge bot.

The refs went through the pits Saturday morning and told every team.

[Swampdude]

Originally Posted by Bjenks548

Legal? I think it is because the only rule about balls on the bridge is they can't aid in balancing right?

[G14]
Strategies that use Basketballs to either aid or inhibit Balancing of any Bridge are not allowed.
Violation: Technical-Foul, and counting or discounting the affected Bridge as Balanced, as appropriate.

[Meredith Novak]

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

At the Smoky Mountains Regional the referees alowed one member, from each alliance, to go to the side of the field and signal their teammates if there was a ball under the bridge.
I know this doesn't eliminate the ball but at least you know it's there.

Refs at events are able to do this? Then SMR teams had an advantage that teams at other events were not offered?

[RogerR]

Originally Posted by IndySam

The refs went through the pits Saturday morning and told every team.

We were not told. None of the mentors, pit crew, or drive team member was told about this.

Maybe they saw someone standing outside the pit, assumed they were on our team, and told them, but it never made it to my team.

[waialua359]

This issue can be game-changing or outright frustrating for alliances.

I hope by now, FIRST is notifying each of the subsequent regionals about what changes, if any, such as the extra person spotting balls trapped for teams, will be allowed and relayed to all teams.

If this was something that FIRST felt teams should figure out on their own to remedy in matches.....then they wouldnt have a rule against it as a strategy to prevent teams from balancing.

From what I witnessed during week 1 regionals, its bad enough for teams to get on and balance themselves on the bridge.

[MooreteP]

FIRST will be addressing this issue shortly.
In the meantime, Tipping the bridge from the other side will usually dislodge these trolls.
It's up to the teams to figure this out and try to establish a protocol of "clearing the bridge" before attempting to balance.

[Jon Stratis]

Per today's team update:

At some events, there were more trapped Basketballs toward the lip of the Bridges than originally expected. To address the issue, we have made a minor change to the way the ball deflectors mount under the bridge. We expect this will greatly reduce, but not necessarily eliminate, the instances of Basketballs trapped under the Bridges. These modifications effectively leave the dynamics of the Bridge unchanged. For details, please see the modified drawings GE-12017 and GE-12064.

http://frc-manual.usfirst.org/TeamUpdates/0#term%20149

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by waialua359

It doesnt matter if all teams have the same problem at any of the events.
Not all of the teams have the same solutions/designs to remedy the situation if it were to occur.

I'm not trying to be snotty here, or pick on anyone, but of course not all teams have the same design. Everyone had to make choices about what their robot can do. Shooters are different, bridge manipulators have different capabilities (or aren't on the robot), etc. And thinking that there might be a reason to look under the far side of the bridge is another choice.

We have a little plastic mirror that came out of a baby crib toy on the front of the robot. Depending on how your camera is mounted you might be able to use that. I'm sure smarter people than I can come up with other methods.

It'll be interesting to see if the field change will help with the problem. And I'm also interested to see what teams do to look under the bridge.

[ChrisH]

I doubt this will be allowed at future events. It should not have been allowed at this event and I doubt if Aidian was consulted. If such a change was made officially it would have been communicated to the other events going on as well, and it was not. Sometimes well meaning officials try and "make things better" by locally "adjusting" the rules. In reality, they just create a mess that has to be dealt with later, especially at a Week 1 event

The original design had the plastic ball deflectors about 2.5" off the ground at the center of the bridge, which gives a slope of about 4 degrees. The revised version flips the deflector over and increases the height of the deflector to about 7", increasing the slope to a little more than 10 degrees. That will require more than twice as much energy for the ball to roll up and get trapped. That should significantly reduce the number of balls being caught under the bridge, and make them want to leave more.

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

At the Smoky Mountains Regional the referees alowed one member, from each alliance, to go to the side of the field and signal their teammates if there was a ball under the bridge.
I know this doesn't eliminate the ball but at least you know it's there.

[waialua359]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

I'm not trying to be snotty here, or pick on anyone, but of course not all teams have the same design. Everyone had to make choices about what their robot can do. Shooters are different, bridge manipulators have different capabilities (or aren't on the robot), etc. And thinking that there might be a reason to look under the far side of the bridge is another choice.

We have a little plastic mirror that came out of a baby crib toy on the front of the robot. Depending on how your camera is mounted you might be able to use that. I'm sure smarter people than I can come up with other methods.

It'll be interesting to see if the field change will help with the problem. And I'm also interested to see what teams do to look under the bridge.

We never brainstormed ideas on looking under the bridge as we assumed the bridge and its appendage would take care of the balls rolling out effectively.
The idea of a plastic mirror instead of mounting another camera is pretty clever and inexpensive.

[johnmaguire2013]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

The field & the rules are the same for everyone. Bad Things happen; where on the spectrum of those things would you like to draw a line that says "change the rules after week one" is right thing to do?

I don't think the rules should be changed. I was simply stating that it isn't the same issue for everyone.