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Unread 07-03-2012, 23:50
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Re: Battery required by rule

I wonder when FRC will decide to switch to 3-cell LiPo batteries instead?
They are much lighter, smaller, and have a more favorable voltage curve compared to lead-acid.
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Unread 07-03-2012, 23:55
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Re: Battery required by rule

Well I take that back then...
In running though our batteries about half and half of each we have not been able to notice a difference so far.
But thanks for the info, sorry for the mis informed response.

LiPo would be nice....
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Unread 08-03-2012, 00:10
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Re: Battery required by rule

I prefer the MK battery since they are manufactured in nearby Anaheim and I can pick them up at will call for $40 each, no shipping.

Call MK and see if they have a distributor that is local to you and save the shipping.
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Unread 08-03-2012, 02:13
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Re: Battery required by rule

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Originally Posted by rsisk View Post
I prefer the MK battery since they are manufactured in nearby Anaheim and I can pick them up at will call for $40 each, no shipping.

Call MK and see if they have a distributor that is local to you and save the shipping.
MK ships everywhere in CA via UPS ground for free as well. I don't know if that extends to neighboring states also.
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Unread 08-03-2012, 02:33
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Re: Battery required by rule

The MK may perform better when they're good, but I've had many MK batteries fail. Probably due to abuse, but still, I have many dead MKs.

The old old dark gray Exides are still going strong.
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Unread 08-03-2012, 11:47
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Re: Battery required by rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddrag View Post
The MK may perform better when they're good, but I've had many MK batteries fail. Probably due to abuse, but still, I have many dead MKs.

The old old dark gray Exides are still going strong.
Good to know about the differences, thanks. The exides may be going strong, but doesn't the rule preclude their use this year?
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Unread 08-03-2012, 11:52
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Re: Battery required by rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by seg9585 View Post
I wonder when FRC will decide to switch to 3-cell LiPo batteries instead?
They are much lighter, smaller, and have a more favorable voltage curve compared to lead-acid.
As soon as someone suggests a specific part number for a LiPo or LiFePO4 pack that meets the energy/power requirements AND is cost-comparable and readily available.
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Unread 15-03-2012, 22:26
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Re: Battery required by rule

The main problem with Li batteries is like you say, cost. The other is that only some are safe considering the beating our bots take. I think the good one is a LiFeP. Probably more expensive too.

Mostly I'd just as soon stick with what we have because of the investment we have in both batteries and chargers. I could see stocking up on batteries and chargers the first year being a kilobuck expense.

Also, even though we are only 4 years old, we've yet to build a bot that even comes close to running out of juice in one match.......

Here's to a great year!

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Unread 15-03-2012, 23:02
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Re: Battery required by rule

Last year we bought 4 batteries from AndyMark for free shipping to CMP in St. Louis. A couple of mentors from our team were going to volunteer, so we picked them up and drove them back. Don't know if AM is offering the same deal this year. I think they were bringing an otherwise empty truck to CMP so that they could bring a field back with them.
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Unread 15-03-2012, 23:01
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Re: Battery required by rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricVanWyk View Post
As soon as someone suggests a specific part number for a LiPo or LiFePO4 pack that meets the energy/power requirements AND is cost-comparable and readily available.
And doesn't catch fire!
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Unread 08-03-2012, 11:53
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Re: Battery required by rule

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Originally Posted by seg9585 View Post
I wonder when FRC will decide to switch to 3-cell LiPo batteries instead?
They are much lighter, smaller, and have a more favorable voltage curve compared to lead-acid.
Not until all teams learn what robust bumper mounting means.
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Unread 08-03-2012, 13:31
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Re: Battery required by rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by seg9585 View Post
I wonder when FRC will decide to switch to 3-cell LiPo batteries instead?
They are much lighter, smaller, and have a more favorable voltage curve compared to lead-acid.
I use liPo and LiFe batteries all the time in my personal projects and toys and love them.

I hope FRC doesn't switch anytime soon; they simple aren't safe and robost enough for the average FRC team.

The "average" "big" battery is a 2s 5 AH and that's enough energy to cause serious fire and injury, a 3s 18 AH would be a bomb.
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Unread 08-03-2012, 14:15
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Re: Battery required by rule

There is a type of lithium battery something with iron phosphate maybe. Anyways you can drive a nail through it and it will not produce any fire or smoke. The lithium batteries have a more favorable voltage cure, they are lighter, plus they last considerably longer cycle wise, enough to make up for the cost. I am in favor of them except that special chargers and battery management systems are required to use them. I think it would be nice to have them as an option but leave the current lead ones for anyone who wants to use them. Rookie team might have a problem with lithium.
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Unread 08-03-2012, 16:12
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Re: Battery required by rule

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There is a type of lithium battery something with iron phosphate maybe. [...] The lithium batteries have a more favorable voltage cure, they are lighter, plus they last considerably longer cycle wise, enough to make up for the cost. I am in favor of them except that special chargers and battery management systems are required to use them.
The LiFePO4 type batteries are pretty expensive.

Here's a cost comparison from my senior design project, LiFePO4 compared to sealed lead-acid (SLA). Note that in this particular application, weight is a HUGE disadvantage, to the tune of -10 points per kilogram (and any GDC members reading this: don't get any ideas, please!). I want to say that it's a total of 24V available, but for competition we're running 12V.

Cost (for 2 12V cells)
SLA: $72
LiFePO4: $358 (plus $50 for charger)

Weight (for 2 12V cells)
SLA: 12.7kg
LiFePO4: 6.5kg
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