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[ttldomination]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

How is 118 and 148 ahead of 1477 who won the event ? What an insult.

I don't know all of the stats, but I will say that 118 tops 1477 in my books.

As two machines going head to head, 118 definitely showed to be the more dominant robot, with 1477 playing a close second. 118's alliance was simply eliminated from the event because their elimination alliance failed to balance a bridge in their last match vs. a three robot balance, which is a devastating deficit to overcome with pure hoop offense.

The three robot balance might also be a reason why people prefer 148 over 1477 as well. Not saying that 148 was solely responsible, but their little stinger has received a lot of attention.

Nothing away from 1477, they have an excellent robot and deserved every ounce of the Alamo win, but I think these rankings really depend on what different people saw and what different people value.

- Sunny G.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by ttldomination

I don't know all of the stats, but I will say that 118 tops 1477 in my books.

As two machines going head to head, 118 definitely showed to be the more dominant robot, with 1477 playing a close second. 118's alliance was simply eliminated from the event because their elimination alliance failed to balance a bridge in their last match vs. a three robot balance, which is a devastating deficit to overcome with pure hoop offense.

The three robot balance might also be a reason why people prefer 148 over 1477 as well. Not saying that 148 was solely responsible, but their little stinger has received a lot of attention.

Nothing away from 1477, they have an excellent robot and deserved every ounce of the Alamo win, but I think these rankings really depend on what different people saw and what different people value.

- Sunny G.

That's like saying the Green Bay Packers should be rated over the New York Giants who won the Superbowl because the Packers offense is more spectacular.
118 and 148 are more known in the FIRST community (you don't see very many threads even mentioning 1477 while there are threads dedicated solely to 118 and 148's robots. So matter what they did they wouldn't get the respect they deserve).
Results are what count not style points.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

That's like saying the Green Bay Packers should be rated over the New York Giants who won the Superbowl because the Packers offense is more spectacular.
Results are what count not style points.

No it isn't.

You are no better than your alliance when it comes to win loss. That doesn't mean that the winner necessarily had the best robot. It means they had the best alliance.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Cory

No it isn't.

You are no better than your alliance when it comes to win loss. That doesn't mean that the winner necessarily had the best robot. It means they had the best alliance.

So what's the point of doing this dog and pony show if people are just going to vote for the teams they heard of and blow off teams that don't get as much exposure? Just put the usual suspects up and ignore the rest then.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

So what's the point of doing this dog and pony show if people are just going to vote for the teams they heard of and blow off teams that don't get as much exposure? Just put the usual suspects up and ignore the rest then.

I fail to see why it's implausible that people legitimately believe one team is better than another, even if the team they think is better didn't win the regional.

The best robot doesn't always win. Nor does the best golfer/tennis player/swimmer/etc. That doesn't stop someone from being ranked #1 in the world even though they don't always win.

[Squeakypig]

Despite 2337 winning the Kettering district (which their alliance deserved to win) I feel like team 3322 should have ranked higher than them. Also, I believe 85 B.O.B. had a more impressive competition at Gull Lake than 51 did at Kettering. I think we will see better rankings around week 4. Until then, it really is gonna be about who the top names are, who posts the most videos on chief, etc.

Edit: Just saw 33 at the number 6 spot. For a team that didn't get their shooter working correctly until day 2 of competition...I don't think we saw them compete enough to put them that high...at all...I think they have the potential to do very good, but we haven't seen it in it's effect yet.

[PayneTrain]

341 gets high score of Week 1;Finishes Third...
Well, now I have motivation to vote. That's just silly.

[JABot67]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

Despite 2337 winning the Kettering district (which their alliance deserved to win) I feel like team 3322 should have ranked higher than them. Also, I believe 85 B.O.B. had a more impressive competition at Gull Lake than 51 did at Kettering. I think we will see better rankings around week 4. Until then, it really is gonna be about who the top names are, who posts the most videos on chief, etc.

Edit: Just saw 33 at the number 6 spot. For a team that didn't get their shooter working correctly until day 2 of competition...I don't think we saw them compete enough to put them that high...at all...I think they have the potential to do very good, but we haven't seen it in it's effect yet.

I think that it is hard for voters to accurately get a feel for which robots at an event are the best, and how robots from different events compare with each other. If I wasn't from Michigan and I saw that 33 was first pick at Kettering, I might rank them pretty high.

My ballot tended to be a mixture of OPR and robot performance in eliminations, with a skew toward events that I thought were more competitive. Hatboro-Horsham had some amazing scoring machines, but outside 3476 I wasn't very impressed by San Diego. (399 over 3476? They were 6th pick and I trust the scouts of the first 5 teams.)

[Clinton Bolinger]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

Despite 2337 winning the Kettering district (which their alliance deserved to win) I feel like team 3322 should have ranked higher than them. Also, I believe 85 B.O.B. had a more impressive competition at Gull Lake than 51 did at Kettering. I think we will see better rankings around week 4. Until then, it really is gonna be about who the top names are, who posts the most videos on chief, etc.

This is going to sound extremely bias but 3322 was missing one important element to the game the Bridges. I truly believe that 3322 could have taking number one seed if they just focused more on the bridges during the qualification matches. Just by looking at the data that is provided by FIRST from Kettering:

Best Hybrid: 3322
Best Teleop: 1504
Best Bridge: 33
Best Coop: 2337
Best All Around: 51

3322 had the best Hybrid mode hands done and their 6 ball auto in the eliminations was definitely a force to be reckoned with.

**Note that the data presented in the chart below is taken directly from Kettering Team Standing Page provided by FIRST (http://www2.usfirst.org/2012comp/Eve...rankings.html). With a slight adjustment for the Coop Points scaling by a factor of ten (CP*10=Adj. CP). The reason I used 10 is because a Coop Balance is as good as a 2-Bot balance.

-Clinton-

[Squeakypig]

Originally Posted by Clinton Bolinger

This is going to sound extremely bias but 3322 was missing one important element to the game the Bridges. I truly believe that 3322 could have taking number one seed if they just focused more on the bridges during the qualification matches. Just by looking at the data that is provided by FIRST from Kettering:

Best Hybrid: 3322
Best Teleop: 1504
Best Bridge: 33
Best Coop: 2337
Best All Around: 51

3322 had the best Hybrid mode hands done and their 6 ball auto in the eliminations was definitely a force to be reckoned with.

**Note that the data presented in the chart below is taken directly from Kettering Team Standing Page provided by FIRST (http://www2.usfirst.org/2012comp/Eve...rankings.html). With a slight adjustment for the Coop Points scaling by a factor of ten (CP*10=Adj. CP). The reason I used 10 is because a Coop Balance is as good as a 2-Bot balance.

-Clinton-

I'm assuming this includes elimination matches as well? Also, if I'm not mistaken, I do not believe that 3322 can balance (or they never tried). That forces them to pick 2 robots that are able to balance, but also let's them focus on scoring throughout the entire match. I don't know, it's just my opinion, I've been wrong many times in the past lol.

[Zach O]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

Also, if I'm not mistaken, I do not believe that 3322 can balance (or they never tried).

According to our data from this weekend, 3322 attempted a coop balance 4 times and was success once. They also tried a single bot balance 3 times and was successful once. So they can balance.

[JABot67]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

I'm assuming this includes elimination matches as well? Also, if I'm not mistaken, I do not believe that 3322 can balance (or they never tried). That forces them to pick 2 robots that are able to balance, but also let's them focus on scoring throughout the entire match. I don't know, it's just my opinion, I've been wrong many times in the past lol.

3322 can balance. In match 9 we scored 40 points by ourselves, including 10 points from balancing alone on the bridge. We tried balancing on the Coopertition bridge on Friday with 33 and failed, but in one of our matches on Saturday we balanced the Coop bridge.

We realized that the Coopertition bridge was a huge aspect of the ranking system, but in our matches we mostly tried to depend on our alliance partners (who couldn't score) to balance the Coopertition bridge. They would fail a lot of the time. We also were experiencing brownouts in our Jaguars that would cause us to fail halfway through our matches. In fact, this happened in every match we lost. Thus, our hybrid score was high but our bridge score was not. It's hard to balance a bridge when your robot cannot move.

[Clinton Bolinger]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

I'm assuming this includes elimination matches as well? Also, if I'm not mistaken, I do not believe that 3322 can balance (or they never tried). That forces them to pick 2 robots that are able to balance, but also let's them focus on scoring throughout the entire match. I don't know, it's just my opinion, I've been wrong many times in the past lol.

The data is only from the Standings of the Qualification Matches.

During the elims both 33 and 2337 changed what they did during the match. 33 was hitting their Hybrid mode, while 2337 started marking shots during Tele.

This game changes a lot from the Qualification round to the Elims.

-Clinton-

[JABot67]

Originally Posted by Clinton Bolinger

The data is only from the Standings of the Qualification Matches.

During the elims both 33 and 2337 changed what they did during the match. 33 was hitting their Hybrid mode, while 2337 started marking shots during Tele.

This game changes a lot from the Qualification round to the Elims.

-Clinton-

It was my understanding that 33 and 2337 changed what they did during the match for eliminations because they got their shooters working better. There is no reason for 33 to not hit their hybrid mode in qualifications if they have it working.

This game shouldn't be extremely different between qualifications and eliminations. If the best teams all focus on balancing the Coopertition bridge in qualifications instead of focusing on scoring, then how are the top 8 going to know who the best scorers are in order to make the best picks?

[Zach O]

Originally Posted by JABot67

It was my understanding that 33 and 2337 changed what they did during the match for eliminations because they got their shooters working better. There is no reason for 33 to not hit their hybrid mode in qualifications if they have it working.

We didn't get our shooter working better, just working more. We changed focus from coop bridges in qualifications to the hoops in elims. If anything changed, it was the drivers experience using the shooter. We didn't end up touching the shooter all weekend.

Originally Posted by JABot67

This game shouldn't be extremely different between qualifications and eliminations. If the best teams all focus on balancing the Coopertition bridge in qualifications instead of focusing on scoring, then how are the top 8 going to know who the best scorers are in order to make the best picks?

Scouting? That's how we did it.