[FRCTop25.com] Week 1 Results Broadcast LIVE tonight!

[Chris Hibner]

For those that believe in OPR, below is the top-50 OPR from week 1 (thanks bongle). This OPR includes OPR points awarded for the coopertition bridge during quals.

1	OPR	341	35.3801
2	OPR	1986	30.4368
3	OPR	118	27.4233
4	OPR	16	24.7187
5	OPR	3528	23.7081
6	OPR	1218	23.1749
7	OPR	716	23.0361
8	OPR	1477	22.8183
9	OPR	1208	22.0868
10	OPR	148	21.4331
11	OPR	488	21.0588
12	OPR	3322	20.4773
13	OPR	967	19.7735
14	OPR	935	18.6588
15	OPR	58	18.6124
16	OPR	1730	18.5956
17	OPR	486	17.6905
18	OPR	131	17.6758
19	OPR	1918	17.2691
20	OPR	2468	17.2359
21	OPR	1982	16.7821
22	OPR	231	16.4926
23	OPR	51	16.4507
24	OPR	3476	16.1193
25	OPR	885	15.9677
26	OPR	525	15.3935
27	OPR	2496	15.3004
28	OPR	1997	15.2512
29	OPR	319	15.1421
30	OPR	772	15.13
31	OPR	85	15.067
32	OPR	2386	14.9676
33	OPR	1987	14.7172
34	OPR	234	14.6423
35	OPR	3467	14.6028
36	OPR	1538	14.5944
37	OPR	2485	14.4801
38	OPR	2751	14.301
39	OPR	2848	14.1875
40	OPR	126	14.0645
41	OPR	1108	13.8912
42	OPR	2337	13.5748
43	OPR	1985	13.5436
44	OPR	2345	13.3764
45	OPR	33	13.2874
46	OPR	95	13.2699
47	OPR	3597	13.2631
48	OPR	1138	13.1683
49	OPR	3284	12.8843
50	OPR	1726	12.7834

While popularity certainly plays a role in some of the picks, these numbers show that some of the discussed controversial picks may not be so controversial. 118 and 1477 both look like they put up a lot of offense. The numbers show 118 put up a little more. 1477 stepped up their game when the chips were down. Who'll be better come St. Louis? It's too early to tell, but odds are that they'll both be in the hunt.

[JABot67]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

Despite 2337 winning the Kettering district (which their alliance deserved to win) I feel like team 3322 should have ranked higher than them. Also, I believe 85 B.O.B. had a more impressive competition at Gull Lake than 51 did at Kettering. I think we will see better rankings around week 4. Until then, it really is gonna be about who the top names are, who posts the most videos on chief, etc.

Edit: Just saw 33 at the number 6 spot. For a team that didn't get their shooter working correctly until day 2 of competition...I don't think we saw them compete enough to put them that high...at all...I think they have the potential to do very good, but we haven't seen it in it's effect yet.

I think that it is hard for voters to accurately get a feel for which robots at an event are the best, and how robots from different events compare with each other. If I wasn't from Michigan and I saw that 33 was first pick at Kettering, I might rank them pretty high.

My ballot tended to be a mixture of OPR and robot performance in eliminations, with a skew toward events that I thought were more competitive. Hatboro-Horsham had some amazing scoring machines, but outside 3476 I wasn't very impressed by San Diego. (399 over 3476? They were 6th pick and I trust the scouts of the first 5 teams.)

[BJC]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

Despite 2337 winning the Kettering district (which their alliance deserved to win) I feel like team 3322 should have ranked higher than them. Also, I believe 85 B.O.B. had a more impressive competition at Gull Lake than 51 did at Kettering. I think we will see better rankings around week 4. Until then, it really is gonna be about who the top names are, who posts the most videos on chief, etc.

Edit: Just saw 33 at the number 6 spot. For a team that didn't get their shooter working correctly until day 2 of competition...I don't think we saw them compete enough to put them that high...at all...I think they have the potential to do very good, but we haven't seen it in it's effect yet.

I actually thought that 2337 was awesome, they scored A LOT of points in Elims. They deserved their spot. 3322 was also awesome, but are less well known, thus is the nature of the beast.

As to 33(us) popularity certainly had a lot to do with it. We were 49 in OPR using only Quals. However, if you added in Elims (when we actually mostly worked) we came up around 4th in OPR. No matter where we were placed, understand that we while we're glad that people think we are the #6 best team right now, WE don't think we were good enough and rest assured that we will be much much better come Troy in Week 5.

Just remember, it's all in fun. Additionally, the more informed voters their are, the less it is a popularity contest.
Regards, Bryan

Edit: Also, Awesome job on the show guys! Your hard work is really apprechiated!

[jwfoss]

Originally Posted by c.shu

Looking at the top 10 it seems to be a popularity contest. But I am glad to see a few new teams make the list too.

Yes, it is at least partially a popularity contest, it's a public poll. Not everyone was able to watch every event nor do they study all of the statistics. To expect anything more of this, or to get angry about the results is pointless.

[Clinton Bolinger]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

Despite 2337 winning the Kettering district (which their alliance deserved to win) I feel like team 3322 should have ranked higher than them. Also, I believe 85 B.O.B. had a more impressive competition at Gull Lake than 51 did at Kettering. I think we will see better rankings around week 4. Until then, it really is gonna be about who the top names are, who posts the most videos on chief, etc.

This is going to sound extremely bias but 3322 was missing one important element to the game the Bridges. I truly believe that 3322 could have taking number one seed if they just focused more on the bridges during the qualification matches. Just by looking at the data that is provided by FIRST from Kettering:

Best Hybrid: 3322
Best Teleop: 1504
Best Bridge: 33
Best Coop: 2337
Best All Around: 51

3322 had the best Hybrid mode hands done and their 6 ball auto in the eliminations was definitely a force to be reckoned with.

**Note that the data presented in the chart below is taken directly from Kettering Team Standing Page provided by FIRST (http://www2.usfirst.org/2012comp/Eve...rankings.html). With a slight adjustment for the Coop Points scaling by a factor of ten (CP*10=Adj. CP). The reason I used 10 is because a Coop Balance is as good as a 2-Bot balance.

-Clinton-

[Squeakypig]

Originally Posted by Clinton Bolinger

This is going to sound extremely bias but 3322 was missing one important element to the game the Bridges. I truly believe that 3322 could have taking number one seed if they just focused more on the bridges during the qualification matches. Just by looking at the data that is provided by FIRST from Kettering:

Best Hybrid: 3322
Best Teleop: 1504
Best Bridge: 33
Best Coop: 2337
Best All Around: 51

3322 had the best Hybrid mode hands done and their 6 ball auto in the eliminations was definitely a force to be reckoned with.

**Note that the data presented in the chart below is taken directly from Kettering Team Standing Page provided by FIRST (http://www2.usfirst.org/2012comp/Eve...rankings.html). With a slight adjustment for the Coop Points scaling by a factor of ten (CP*10=Adj. CP). The reason I used 10 is because a Coop Balance is as good as a 2-Bot balance.

-Clinton-

I'm assuming this includes elimination matches as well? Also, if I'm not mistaken, I do not believe that 3322 can balance (or they never tried). That forces them to pick 2 robots that are able to balance, but also let's them focus on scoring throughout the entire match. I don't know, it's just my opinion, I've been wrong many times in the past lol.

[Zach O]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

Also, if I'm not mistaken, I do not believe that 3322 can balance (or they never tried).

According to our data from this weekend, 3322 attempted a coop balance 4 times and was success once. They also tried a single bot balance 3 times and was successful once. So they can balance.

[Greg Leighton]

FRC Top 25, I’m gonna let you finish but Daisy had one of the best 1st week performances of all time. Only kind of joking, but seriously 341 did an amazing job, surprised they didn’t get #1. When I put my list together I looked hard at who won the competition, then did some ranking based on OPR, and on where teams got knocked out. Qualifications during a week 1 can be rough, so I thought it was fair to prioritize elimination performance in my list. I missed a few robots but other than that my list included 21 of the top 25 (1 of the teams I missed was my own).

My list:

1. 341
2. 1986
3. 1218
4. 16
5. 1477
6. 58
7. 131
8. 3476
9. 234
10. 148
11. 1918
12. 3322
13. 231
14. 772
15. 118
16. 935
17. 33
18. 85
19. 357
20. 4161
21. 1138
22. 862
23. 51
24. 399
25. 2016

[JABot67]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

I'm assuming this includes elimination matches as well? Also, if I'm not mistaken, I do not believe that 3322 can balance (or they never tried). That forces them to pick 2 robots that are able to balance, but also let's them focus on scoring throughout the entire match. I don't know, it's just my opinion, I've been wrong many times in the past lol.

3322 can balance. In match 9 we scored 40 points by ourselves, including 10 points from balancing alone on the bridge. We tried balancing on the Coopertition bridge on Friday with 33 and failed, but in one of our matches on Saturday we balanced the Coop bridge.

We realized that the Coopertition bridge was a huge aspect of the ranking system, but in our matches we mostly tried to depend on our alliance partners (who couldn't score) to balance the Coopertition bridge. They would fail a lot of the time. We also were experiencing brownouts in our Jaguars that would cause us to fail halfway through our matches. In fact, this happened in every match we lost. Thus, our hybrid score was high but our bridge score was not. It's hard to balance a bridge when your robot cannot move.

[Clinton Bolinger]

Originally Posted by Squeakypig

I'm assuming this includes elimination matches as well? Also, if I'm not mistaken, I do not believe that 3322 can balance (or they never tried). That forces them to pick 2 robots that are able to balance, but also let's them focus on scoring throughout the entire match. I don't know, it's just my opinion, I've been wrong many times in the past lol.

The data is only from the Standings of the Qualification Matches.

During the elims both 33 and 2337 changed what they did during the match. 33 was hitting their Hybrid mode, while 2337 started marking shots during Tele.

This game changes a lot from the Qualification round to the Elims.

-Clinton-

[JABot67]

Originally Posted by Clinton Bolinger

The data is only from the Standings of the Qualification Matches.

During the elims both 33 and 2337 changed what they did during the match. 33 was hitting their Hybrid mode, while 2337 started marking shots during Tele.

This game changes a lot from the Qualification round to the Elims.

-Clinton-

It was my understanding that 33 and 2337 changed what they did during the match for eliminations because they got their shooters working better. There is no reason for 33 to not hit their hybrid mode in qualifications if they have it working.

This game shouldn't be extremely different between qualifications and eliminations. If the best teams all focus on balancing the Coopertition bridge in qualifications instead of focusing on scoring, then how are the top 8 going to know who the best scorers are in order to make the best picks?

[Zach O]

Originally Posted by JABot67

It was my understanding that 33 and 2337 changed what they did during the match for eliminations because they got their shooters working better. There is no reason for 33 to not hit their hybrid mode in qualifications if they have it working.

We didn't get our shooter working better, just working more. We changed focus from coop bridges in qualifications to the hoops in elims. If anything changed, it was the drivers experience using the shooter. We didn't end up touching the shooter all weekend.

Originally Posted by JABot67

This game shouldn't be extremely different between qualifications and eliminations. If the best teams all focus on balancing the Coopertition bridge in qualifications instead of focusing on scoring, then how are the top 8 going to know who the best scorers are in order to make the best picks?

Scouting? That's how we did it.

[Blackphantom91]

I feel its kinda arbitrary to discuss how the rankings come out in the end due to the fact that not everyone is a scouting master. We have to understand that the results are subjected to what "hot" regional is being watched for that week. Regional broadcasts although absolutely amazing to have, don't always focus on every single robot in a moment of shine or trouble its up in the air on what voters see unless they are at that regional.

The question of is 1477 better than 118 and 148 and should be higher? Results say yes they are, but in the top 25 they are ranked lower than others and we ask why their performance on the field says so they came out the victor right? There also is an alliance that also helped them #Cutthenet because no one team can make it with out help, so why some of these teams on the list?

Its a lot for one person to consider when voting that I just think most people don't have the time to look at fully so it some what does become a popularity contest. I think its our job as viewers and educated "firsters" whom do pay attention to every detail to make note of these things during chat of the show, but at the end of the day it is a public poll so people will pick their favorite teams that they have seen or know by rep.


Good show this week interested in this weeks play and future play throughout the season good luck all teams competing in weeks out.

[JABot67]

Originally Posted by Zach O

Scouting?

My point is that if a team isn't scoring in qualifications, it's hard for scouts to figure out how well they will score in eliminations.

[Zach O]

Originally Posted by JABot67

My point is that if a team isn't scoring in qualifications, it's hard for scouts to figure out how well they will score in eliminations.

I would agree with that. We took a chance by going for the coop bridges that teams would see that we were going for ranking score, and not trying to score balls in teleop. In a perfect world, we would have been able to demonstrate our shooter during Friday and Saturday morning, but we weren't going to risk losing the coop bridge to shoot balls.

Scouting wise, we gave teams points for being able to balance the coop bridge with another robot. In our scouting data, it put us at a pretty accurate spot by calculated contribution.