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  #16   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-03-2012, 20:59
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

We did actually get blocked from our bridge at Gull Lake in our final match. We didn't notice until too late but managed to win with balls. Alliances will have to have a human player or coach to watch out for this block. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZazWS2kl3Ho#t=116s
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Unread 10-03-2012, 23:26
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

The Coopertition bridge, now more than ever, rewards teams that know how to play the game, leaving in the dust teams who disregard it. However, it rewards teams with mediocre robots that know how to play the game and can take advantage of it. If you take it every match, you can seed quite high and be guaranteed a pick. It also lowers the seeds of good teams that miss it a time or two, making eliminations incredibly exciting to watch because finally, the blue alliance can win. We beat the 3rd alliance at FLR as the 6th, and it was without doubt due to the seeding system. I will write more in depth about impressions for Week 2 Regional tomorrow, when I have more than 12 hours of sleep in the past three days.
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Unread 11-03-2012, 14:07
SamMullen SamMullen is offline
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday View Post
The Coopertition bridge, now more than ever, rewards teams that know how to play the game, leaving in the dust teams who disregard it. However, it rewards teams with mediocre robots that know how to play the game and can take advantage of it. If you take it every match, you can seed quite high and be guaranteed a pick. It also lowers the seeds of good teams that miss it a time or two, making eliminations incredibly exciting to watch because finally, the blue alliance can win. We beat the 3rd alliance at FLR as the 6th, and it was without doubt due to the seeding system. I will write more in depth about impressions for Week 2 Regional tomorrow, when I have more than 12 hours of sleep in the past three days.
Perhaps the best demonstration of this would be at the Chesapeake Regional.

The red alliance won only three times at Chesapeake- the first seed won its first pairing, then lost to the fifth seed, the 7th seed beat the 6th seed, (7th was red because it was the survivor of the 2v7 match, while 6th won the 3v6 match), and the fifth seed finally won overall.

To phrase that in a slightly more readable manner, the blue alliance won slightly more than half the games, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it was because of the new seeding system. Several teams on the top 4 seeded alliances had significantly higher standings because of CP, and were actually weaker than many others in terms of strength.
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Unread 11-03-2012, 15:26
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

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Originally Posted by SamMullen View Post
Perhaps the best demonstration of this would be at the Chesapeake Regional.

The red alliance won only three times at Chesapeake- the first seed won its first pairing, then lost to the fifth seed, the 7th seed beat the 6th seed, (7th was red because it was the survivor of the 2v7 match, while 6th won the 3v6 match), and the fifth seed finally won overall.

To phrase that in a slightly more readable manner, the blue alliance won slightly more than half the games, and I think you hit the nail on the head when you said it was because of the new seeding system. Several teams on the top 4 seeded alliances had significantly higher standings because of CP, and were actually weaker than many others in terms of strength.
From TBA, it looks like the red alliance won/advanced 4 times.
Also, I would say that in some events it was the case that the blue alliances won (Chesapeake, Oregon, WPI) but for other events it seems like the top seeds are winning as normal. Kettering, Hatboro-Horsham, Chestnut Hill, and especially Waterford (All red alliances won/advanced) are examples of this.
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  #20   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-03-2012, 15:49
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

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Originally Posted by JosephC View Post
We (68, 226, and 1) scraped off a victory at Waterford in QF 3 Match 2 because team 1's robot died on the other side of the field, keeping the other team (3098, 573, and 3601) from balancing any robots on their bridge.
To be fair, they got two robots at the bridge, they just never balanced.
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  #21   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-03-2012, 16:39
SamMullen SamMullen is offline
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by JABot67 View Post
From TBA, it looks like the red alliance won/advanced 4 times.
Also, I would say that in some events it was the case that the blue alliances won (Chesapeake, Oregon, WPI) but for other events it seems like the top seeds are winning as normal. Kettering, Hatboro-Horsham, Chestnut Hill, and especially Waterford (All red alliances won/advanced) are examples of this.
You might have mistaken how each one of the red alliances won at least one match in the quarter finals, but there were very definitely only three red alliance advances.

In response to your second point, yes, red alliances can still win. In the two regional events that I watched bad scouting and good strategy played as much a role as anything else. But three regional events with major upsets says to me that there is a little more unpredictability in who wins a regional.
  #22   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-03-2012, 16:46
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

Yeah, a team seeded low in the top 8 can, with good scouting and strategy, go on to do very well this year. The game puts more emphasis on overarching strategy than any other I have seen.
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Unread 12-03-2012, 03:10
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by SamMullen View Post
While triple balancing is undoubtedly an incredible point getting maneuver, don't over estimate it. In Oregon, 360, 3711, and 956 won partially because 1983 and 2046 missed some of their shots. If they had made just nine more points- only 3 shots- they would have won. Triple balancing is obviously a necessity, but devoting as much time as 3711's team did is probably a bad idea. A last minute rush to triple balance, while riskier, is probably the best strategy.
Not to correct my esteemed alumni Sam, but considering out of those three matches one of our partners was totally inactive for 1 1/2 of them ( including the first two hybrid periods) and only partial active for 1/2 of the second which means thier contribution to shooting points is unknown, however, they could shoot. also we had the highest score of the event with 72. So we didn't completely rely on triple balancing, but the alliance was built with triple balancing in mind. ( those 3711 folks are pretty smart)
In response to the treads original question. Everyone should be balancing the coopertition bridge. The fluctuations in rankings when only some alliances do it is a bit disconcerting.
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  #24   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-03-2012, 11:21
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagiChau View Post
We did actually get blocked from our bridge at Gull Lake in our final match. We didn't notice until too late but managed to win with balls. Alliances will have to have a human player or coach to watch out for this block. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZazWS2kl3Ho#t=116s
Is the ref calling a penalty toward the end of that match?

If so, what for? I didn't see anything illegal by the blue bot...
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Unread 12-03-2012, 11:42
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

Another thing that i didn't like was that penalties were not which was not anounced which makes it hard to weed out the bad drivers in terms of scouting.

another thing that i herd teams were trying was to get teams to throw the matches or told them to not balence the co-op bridge with them when they were aganist the higher seeded teams.
which was not GP.
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Unread 12-03-2012, 11:52
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoccerTaco View Post
Is the ref calling a penalty toward the end of that match?

If so, what for? I didn't see anything illegal by the blue bot...
Ultimately there were no penalties called in that match so the ref might have been confused. IIRC

Last edited by MagiChau : 12-03-2012 at 12:03.
  #27   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-03-2012, 13:37
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Re: Week 2 Strategies

Quote:
Originally Posted by deshnik View Post
another thing that i herd teams were trying was to get teams to throw the matches or told them to not balence the co-op bridge with them when they were aganist the higher seeded teams.
which was not GP.
I wasn't going to comment on this... then I thought about it. I see a couple of problems with this statement, particularly the last line.

The first problem I have is that GP doesn't necessarily apply to strategy. Not balancing the coopertition bridge is a potentially viable strategy; throwing a match can be a viable strategy, in the right circumstances. Note that we're not talking match strategy here, but competition strategy.

However, trying to convince another team to do what is best for your team, especially if you're not in the same match, is one of those things that kind of makes you go, "What are they thinking?" If you're in the same match, on the same alliance, and agree on a strategy that benefits one of the teams at the expense of the others, that's one thing. In that case, the alliance agreed to do it in that match. But in any other match, that's another thing entirely. Note that I'm not going to say it isn't GP, especially because it can be context-dependent whether it's even a good strategy. What I am going to say is, sometimes you just need to play the game like it's supposed to be played and not try to game the rankings, and allow everyone else to do the same.

The other issue that I have with this part of the quoted post... well, it's kind of hard to determine what's not GP. There's some discussion of why that is in http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh....php?p=1133905
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