By the book: wifi-less scouting?

[NullEntity]

Sneakernet works for us. We have tablets that we can pass a flash drive down the line to transfer data then run it to the pits. We're looking into Bluetooth, but that isn't going to reach the pits.

[sanddrag]

Anyone ever try a 900MHz ethernet link? They aren't cheap.

[compuwiz12]

What we have done in the past is have a computer running a web server and laptops connected to it via ethernet through router and switch. However, ethernet cables break quite often and they get tangled up and you also have to run power which is a chore every morning and that uses duct tape and it's just a mess.

This year, I wrote a mobile optimized website because many people now own smartphones esp. those on robotics teams. It worked like a charm. Used a robot battery and power inverter to charge phones when they needed it. Other than that, no wires. Website is about a 100k load and then uses ajax to submit results which is only a couple of kb per match. Also, it has the added benefit of "knowing" the current match by reading twitter feed from FMS.

Also, with the way I did it this year, it was much easier than previous years to get data to the pits, they just looked at it on their phones. Before, you'd have to print/write information on each match and have someone run it down before the drive team left which took awhile, now they have up to date results when they want them.

[rbrown1]

Beware of wanting to use venue supplied wi-fi. In KC the vendor could not keep up with all the ip requests. Cell phone reception is very limited at the GKG regional and everyone was linking onto the supplied wi-fi. At one point we had over 800 active ip addresses due to all the new apps. KC was able to handle this by adding more equipment twice during the comptetion.

[cgmv123]

Originally Posted by rbrown1

KC was able to handle this by adding more equipment twice during the comptetion.

It didn't interfere with the FMS?

[rbrown1]

No. we made sure the network was not on the same frequency as the game field.

[RayTurner1126]

when 1126 tried to use internet-based scouting at FLR it was an absolute disaster, we constantly lost our wifi signal and we couldn't have all 6 scouters on at once, and then we had issues with being able to send our data to one common source. however, i don't recommend paper scouting, as it is very difficult to crunch numbers this way, and it tends to overall just be less reliable, because people don't feel as inclined to fill things out (my personal experience, coming from the kid that was walking around with a huge binder of scouting sheets at FLR)

[Patrick Chiang]

So does anyone know a way to set up a wireless network (completely local) that will not interfere with FMS (and vice versa)? Do we just run on a different frequency?

[slang800]

If you read section 4.3.1 Robot Wireless Control in the rules, you will see that wireless networks are prohibited anyway.

Teams are not allowed to set up their own 802.11a/b/g/n (2.4GHz or 5GHz) wireless communication (access points or ad-hoc networks) in the venue

Note that a wireless hot spot created by a cellular device would be considered an access point, and thus not allowed

This is probably made to prevent the wireless networks from interfering with the FMS, but could also be due to the fact that many arenas have vendor-supplied wifi and could have urged FIRST to make this rule. Either way, you shouldn't setup a wireless network at a event (unless it's a bluetooth PAN).

Because of this rule, our team has setup a completely wired network using a Apache2 server running on a laptop and a router to connect to other laptops which scouts use. However, we ran into issues with getting power at our last regional and needed to fall back on our paper system.

[Patrick Chiang]

Originally Posted by slang800

If you read section 4.3.1 Robot Wireless Control in the rules, you will see that wireless networks are prohibited anyway.

This is probably made to prevent the wireless networks from interfering with the FMS, but could also be due to the fact that many arenas have vendor-supplied wifi and could have urged FIRST to make this rule. Either way, you shouldn't setup a wireless network at a event (unless it's a bluetooth PAN).

Because of this rule, our team has setup a completely wired network using a Apache2 server running on a laptop and a router to connect to other laptops which scouts use. However, we ran into issues with getting power at our last regional and needed to fall back on our paper system.

That doesn't mean you can't connect to one of someone else's open networks (possibly from outside the arena) without internet access, and use it as a way to communicate between your scouts. That would be within the spirit of the rules right?

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Patrick Chiang

That doesn't mean you can't connect to one of someone else's open networks (possibly from outside the arena) without internet access, and use it as a way to communicate between your scouts. That would be within the spirit of the rules right?

If there is a Wifi wireless network that can be seen and/or connected in in the stands/arena/pits at a competition, it's in violation of the rules. It doesn't matter where the router is located, who set up the network, or whether it has access to the Internet.

If you really need to have a network connection for your scouting efforts, you will need to use 3G, 4G, or WiMAX networks.

[Patrick Chiang]

Originally Posted by artdutra04

If there is a Wifi wireless network that can be seen and/or connected in in the stands/arena/pits at a competition, it's in violation of the rules. It doesn't matter where the router is located, who set up the network, or whether it has access to the Internet.

If you really need to have a network connection for your scouting efforts, you will need to use 3G, 4G, or WiMAX networks.

What? There's always more than a few stray wifi hotspots around the arena. The rules only prohibit teams from setting them up, not from using these wifi hotspots. Also, last few years, I remember there were competition officials advertising these hotspots (which you had to pay for). I doubt the intention of the rules (or wording) is to prohibit people from using wireless at all times.