2012-Greater Toronto Regional East

[ghostmachine360]

Congratulations to 1114, 2056, and 1219 for winning GTRE, 1114 for their RCA, and 1114 for their dual DL Finalists.

And to 1114, thank you for continually being an inspiration to myself and my alma mater. You, your mentors, and your alumni are one of the reasons I believe without a doubt that FIRST is changing our culture. I can only wish to reach the level of discipline and effort that each individual in the Simbotics family employ on a daily basis as I start to do more in volunteering & working with FIRST as an alumni/mentor.

Also, I relish the thought and opportunity to have not 2, but 4 Simbotics Dean's List finalists in our group; an opportunity to work with the best, and to make FIRST better as an organization.

[Founder]

Originally Posted by dr. fragger

I'm sad to say that, at the regional level, all I've personally been met with when attempting to start a conversation with (or congratulating!) a Simbotics member was nothing short of a brick wall; a blank stare and quick flight. 2056 have always been very easy to chit chat with and just seem to be happier people overall.

As a machine, both teams' robots are very impressive, and I would love to sit down with whomever designed it just to pick their brains, or to sit-in on their designing sessions--this, I feel, would be extremely beneficial--to see their design and decision making process, more than anything, for inspiration (and recognition) of science and technology. Being crushed year after year is less inspiring (but it gives our David team a Goliath to look out for).

I'm not sure which team member(s) you have talked too, but I can guarantee anytime I have talked to either member from both of these teams, I have been met with humbled responses and they have ALWAYS explained anything I have asked in detail regarding their robot or program.


I'm greatly upset at the way this thread has turned, this is a poor representation of FIRST and more specifically this event. This was a very enjoyable weekend and it is disappointing that the negative aspects are being highlighted.


Furthermore, I have never witnessed or experienced such a sentimental and moving moment in any FIRST event since 2003 then when Simbotics Chairman's Award video submission was played for the entire crowd shortly after their win .

It is impossible to sit there and not realize the affect this team has on their students, Ontario, Canada and the FIRST program and it's entirety. It is phenomenal the things they have accomplished, it truly is remarkable.

Before anyone else decides to make a comment regarding these teams, come to a regional that they are competing at, find a team member and talk to them, I can guarantee you will be amazed at the things they have to say.

Lastly, as a small example of the kind of people that 1114 is made of, the entire 1114 team stayed last night helping pack up the field until every single crate was on the truck. No questions asked, just pure generosity from their students and mentors.

Stop bad mouthing such an inspiring team and group of people.

[dr. fragger]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Rise above the hate...

Wise words.


P.

[PriyankP]

I can't believe some of the things that have been said in this thread. Teams bashing other teams publicly because of their strategy, teams bashing other teams publicly for being successful, teams bashing other teams publicly for being a good team. For the first time, I am ashamed of being a part of FIRST and trying to spread it to friends and colleagues.

Some of the words used to describe Team 2185 by teams on social networking sites and users here are just plain disrespectful to the team and its students and mentors. You guys started bashing them when you didn't have the full knowledge of what happened and why it happened. While the actions of some of the team members on the playing field might be considered ungracious, it is no reason to publicly curse at the whole team or to call them names. That is, by definition, ungracious.

Choosing to not balance the white bridge with the opposing alliance is a valid strategy this year and has already changed the outcomes of competitions that took place in weeks one and two. I believe that the bridge is a good addition to the game because it is a way to make sure that the alliances in the eliminations are (somewhat) balanced. For whatever reason, if a team feels that by not balancing the bridge, they will have a higher chance of winning, then there is nothing ungracious about it. However, it is my personal opinion that if an alliance member chooses to balance the white bridge, they should not be prevented from doing so.

The amount of hate in this thread is just ridiculous. Team 1114 and Team 2056 have not committed a crime by being good. Neither have they been ungracious about anything! Hating on teams who have raised the bar for success is just stupid. Also, since when is it acceptable to publicly humiliate a team by posting on Chief Delphi that _____ team was on our blacklist for _____ reason? If you don't like the team's actions on/off the field, keep it within your team and when it comes to alliance selections, you can choose to not work with the team.

The reason why this matters to me is because I tried to get certain influential people at my university to see how amazing FIRST is by sending out a few links and I (foolishly) included a link to this thread. At this point I really hope that they decided to not read everything in this post after the first 2 pages. It will not only be embarrassing for me, but it will also hurt FIRST because of very few bitter individuals.



Amid all the controversies, I would like to congratulate teams 1114, 2056, 1219 for winning the regional. You guys were definitely a force to reckon with and fun to compete with. I hope you know that no one on 188 has any hate towards you. In fact, many students try to look at your previous work and have learned a lot from it.

Congratulations to Simbotics for the regional Chairman's Award, your Chairman's video was really inspiring! Congrats to 2809 for the double engineering awards! And as a Team 188 alumni and mentor, I would also like to congratulate the students on my own team for another successful regional; eventually we'll get the gold!

610, you guys had a wonderful robot and were a great alliance captain! As usual, it was a pleasure working with you and I hope to team up again in the future and win some hardware. 3360, you guys were brilliant and the triple balance was just out of question without you guys!

I apologize if you feel anything I said is wrong; please do not associate my opinions to that of my team.

Thank you to all and hope to see you next year!

~ Priyank

[Joe G.]

Originally Posted by 907eyci

For example those vex and Lego kits that they put in all the schools probably added up to a cash value of more then the budgets of most teams competing.

I wasn't going to comment on this thread.

But if you truly don't believe that spreading STEM opportunities to younger students and a wider audience is a worthwhile use of funds, and that it would be better spent on getting you a plastic trophy, then you do not belong in an event For Inspiration and Recognition of Science and Technology.

Please close this thread. We all need to calm down, and go back to culture changing.

[Akash Rastogi]

To lighten the mood just a bit

[Anupam Goli]

Originally Posted by 907eyci

what this person did wrong was use the #'s of a few teams, but they are not the only ones that do it. sadly because of these two teams this person may not have have ever been exposed to the others that do it.

I love this post but have been un able to say it in fear of getting my account banned from this form. i have been in FRC for years in the GTR area and feel the pain. teams like this tear the dreams of others away from them by removing any chance of getting to the worlds, by cleaning up on the field and in the awards section of comp. with budgets that have grown from cascading sources they can do more then most teams can... in my eyes it seems that they get more attention then what they should. you give any team that kind of $ backing them up and any one can do more. for example those vex and Lego kits that they put in all the schools probably added up to a cash value of more then the budgets of most teams competing.

on the other hand FRC permits teams to run them like a business, so you have some kids build there bot by hand and others shipping it out to be built for them and they might assemble it. it's going to happen.

what needs to change is that the judges, and refs should not be in any way related to any `one` team, this causes a huge bias IMO. Judges for awards should also know what awards have been given to a team at other regional's so that any one team can not win the same award at 4 different regional for the same work. this allows for more students work to be seen.

we all must be reminded it's the students that should be learning not the adults. the chance to evenly earn there way to the worlds should be given to any group of students that set there minds to it.

There is a similar phenomenon down here in the Atlanta are with Team 2415 and their sweeping of regionals lately. I'm going to say it right now: They earned every single bit of the money They Raised, every single regional victory The Students won through intelligence, strategy, and skill, and they deserve all of the praise they get.

There are plenty of rumors going around saying The mentors (Former 1002 Alumni) built 2415's robots, and how their massive budgets that allow them to build 3 robots is unfair, but it comes down to how hard they work. I had the opportunity to see their shop. It's smaller than our own, yet they use it to its fullest potential. The team works hard, and earns everything they do

It's the same with Team 1114. Want to one up them? Earn it. If that means working your butts off, then so be it. After our team's lackluster performance last year, I went on a crusade to gain as much knowledge and experience as possible to ensure our team was victorious this year. I browsed CD daily, designed drivetrains, participated in Beta testing, and did offseason events. The end result: We have a good robot that can compete with the best of the best this year.

Team 1114 and 2056 continue to be my sources of inspiration, ever since we faced off against them in the Quarter Finals of Archimedes in 2009. I was a freshman at the time, I was amazed at how beautiful their robots were, and I continued to follow them because of what an inspiration both teams are. Instead of hating on them, let them inspire you, and show you what FIRST really is.

[TRWSHSHLX]

Coming from a robotics program that had to share a motor controller between 3 robots for FTC, I know first hand what it means to be under-funded, under-sponsored, and insert similar adjectives.

It's true that some teams have more resources than others, however, does that mean other teams should hate on them just because of that? No. Almost all of the resourceful teams have dedicated people (students and or mentors) working on how to sustain the partnerships and similar stuff. They've earned their resources by working for them.

As for purposefully denying the balance of a bridge, like many others already said, if the cooperative bridge is already balanced, just leave it. It's one thing to not accept the invitation, but to go against your own alliance robot and ram the bridge on purpose? Maybe the ramming team can approach your own alliance partners and suggest not to cooperate (for whatever reason) and if your partner think the action is better for them in the long run, they will agree.

Every team out there is trying to win, and there's nothing wrong with that. However, winning is not critical in FIRST to be inspired. Of course everyone want to be a winner vs. being on the losing side, but does that mean they are not inspired to build a better robot next year, have more outreach activities, or try to find more resources? No. There will only be 3 teams (4 teams if counting chairman) to be the "true winner" of the competition, but that doesn't mean the rest of the teams are not inspired. If the level of inspiring of your team is solely based on the result of the season, here's a phrase for you, as I'm not going to comment anything towards any team in particular:

It's about the journey, not the destination.

[dr. fragger]

Originally Posted by 907eyci

I love this post but have been un able to say it in fear of getting my account banned from this form.

Then please do not use this account--I want to know who this is, it's very upsetting and should not be representative of the team in its entirety by using the teams account.

Send me a personal message and do not use this account for your personal use again. This was a decision made in poor taste. Ownership of opinions should be one of the lessons you learned by being a member of this team.


P.


*edit, added below*

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

To lighten the mood just a bit

I like you... personally this thread is a distraction right now from my development of slides for the lecture I have to give tomorrow.

[Duke461]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved in this thread, but this is too much.

Karthik,

For once, you are wrong—with the first clause of the sentence, that is. The latter half is correct. I, with the utmost sincereness, thank you for getting involved in this thread, and I ask you to continually get involved in threads that involve you directly and/or indirectly. I do not ask this because i want to read fights, nor arguments, nor ideals that FIRST does not strive for, but because you are a "hidden mentor" to a lot of people, including myself.

I cannot simply express how much of an impact you, and other mentors on Chief Delphi have had on me (Koko Ed, EricH, Akash, etc.). However, I am most certainly going to try. All my life I have been one of the most competitive people you will ever meet. I always want to win, whether it's a basketball game against another school, or a game of monopoly with my family. The worst part is, I always want to make an excuse, or in my mind at times a "reason", as to why I lost, or why he/she won.

Regional competitions, unfortunately, bring out my superfluously competitive nature. I partially consider this to be inherent in myself, but I know it can be controlled. I see, read, and hear about how brilliantly successful teams like 1114 and 2056 are, and my first emotion is jealously. I understand this is wrong, however I believe jealously is simply the evil twin of desiring to emulate, and it can be overcome. My point here is, when I read the aforementioned posts bashing teams like yours, I find myself agreeing with the previous comments, and thinking to myself, Yeah, it's not fair that they have these amazing mentors!, thus being my "excuse", and so on. I then find myself being sucked into these terrible, non-graciously professional opinions.

Seeing you respond to these harsh posts, as professional and mature as humanly possible, is what snaps me back to reality. Swiftly and firmly, but not too aggressively, you knock down every attack placed upon you. You remind me that there are incredibly gifted students out there. You remind me that FIRST is about inspiration, not winning regionals. Most importantly, you remind me that I am acting like a fool and that making excuses will get me nowhere in life.

To put it quite simply, please continue to reply. Please continue to be a hidden mentor. Please continue to show others, and myself included, how to respond maturely and passionately about issues that directly concern oneself. Please continue to post so that people like myself, that may get swayed by these negatives posts, can see the truth. As a junior in High School, I am just now beginning to understand the real world. You, Karthik, probably without realizing it, are helping me to rationally shape a true, honest, and Graciously Professional real world.

With complete sincerity,
Thank you for being a true FIRST mentor.
-Duke

EDIT: P.S. I move to consider keeping this thread open, as per the reasons aforementioned. No, New York, you may NOT abstain from the vote!

Originally Posted by Karthik

//Edit: I apologize for ending a sentence with a preposition. I'm too disenchanted at the moment to fix it.

I'm quite the "grammar police" kind of guy, but I'll let this one slide.

[fuzzwaz]

Why are there so many people out there who are so uncomfortable with how other students and mentors run their teams? It is not YOUR team.

Why does it matter how other teams function unless you are seeking that information to better your own team? If you feel like other teams are doing FIRST wrong, why does it matter? All that matters is if YOUR team is doing FIRST in a way that you see as "right".

FIRST was a learning experience for me. It got me prepared for the world by introducing me to how the world functions in a lot of ways. The world is NOT fair. The world is NOT all sunshine and rainbows. The world is full of things that not everyone is going to like- but that is REALITY.

Faulting a team for consistently winning is irrational and ungracious. The truth is, some teams got it figured out. Some teams know how important it is to learn from their mistakes and carry everything they have learned from one generation and teach it to the next. Some teams know how to educate their students so that each and every year, no matter who is on the team, they can pick up where they left off.

And even if there were teams that sit and play video games for 4 weeks until a big name engineer shows up with a step to step guide on how to build a robot, why would it matter?? What are they learning? Nothing. What are you learning? Everything. In the end, you win. So what the heck do you have to complain about it?

Students should enjoy the short time they have to be a part of a FIRST team and mentors should focus on helping their students learn and achieve goals/dreams. Period.

[Allison K]

I would just like to note that having superpower teams is great for an area. As a mentor and alumni of a team sandwiched between 469 (4 miles to the west) and 217 (10 miles to the east), and in close proximity to a number of other Michigan superpowers, I can attest to the fact that having superpower teams in the area should be considered a positive thing for both FIRST overall and by individual teams in the area. Such teams bring publicity and media attention, attract more students to the program, piques interest from neighboring schools resulting in the creation of more teams, and give other local teams something to aspire towards. Though it seems that most of the posts in this thread are in defense of 1114/2056, those who are distressed by their robot-building prowess ought to consider whether FIRST in Canada would ever have grown to what it is now without their presence.

Congrats to 1114, 2056, and 1219 on your win!

~Allison

[Lara Surmak]

For the people who can see where I'm coming from, thank you. It's nice to know that other people have noticed this

A lot of people have been mentioning that the superior robots are something to strive for. I'm just wondering what high school student has the skill or knowledge to even compare to a professional engineer? It would be an excellent goal if we were all had the same resources, but that goal is unattainable. I'm sorry to say this, but high school students have almost no chance next to them. They don't have the training, facilities, or experience.

[Doug G]

Wow, what a thread... Please mods don't close it, yet... There are things said in the thread that more teams should read and think about, which is a good thing. Here are my two comments...

1) Many years ago, I've experienced first hand a team playing very ungraciously during a competition, where an adult coach was telling a driver to purposely tip another robot in order to win the match because it was the only way to win. Sad. Now I know a kid might make the decision in haste, but to hear from an adult in a pre-match planning session was disturbing. I am referring to one of those teams that allegedly conspired against 1114/2056. I wasn't surprised to hear this happen.

2) Jealousy gets the best of all of us, including some CD members. For many of our early years my own team was always jealous of the poofs (254). They had great mentors, sponsors, and always a winning robot. But after getting to know them closer - you begin to get more inspired than jealous. They work really, really hard. My team strives to do more and more each year, partly because we want to compete on the same level as 254. It has become a standard that we try to hold ourselves to and I have a feeling others do as well. The same goes true for 1114/2056. They have risen the bar and all of us with it. Last year I heard from another team's mentor that our team doesn't build or design our robots and that is all mentor driven. I laughed... I kind of take that as a compliment that our team is reaching that higher level.

How do you get to same point as 254/1114/2056 and others? Work really really hard!! It is a good lesson more students need to learn.

[Matt1114]

Originally Posted by 907eyci

...you give any team that kind of $ backing them up and any one can do more. For example those Vex and Lego kits that they put in all the schools probably added up to a cash value of more then the budgets of most teams competing.

Just to be clear, 1114 put together funding proposals to our school board, so they could purchase robotics kits for every school. We did this in hopes of fostering interest in STEM education in the Niagara region. This was not a case of us throwing around bags of our own money. It was us working to reform education, and convincing our school board to put an emphasis on STEM education. I'm not sure how you can see this as a bad thing.