2012-Greater Toronto Regional East

[Lara Surmak]

For the people who can see where I'm coming from, thank you. It's nice to know that other people have noticed this

A lot of people have been mentioning that the superior robots are something to strive for. I'm just wondering what high school student has the skill or knowledge to even compare to a professional engineer? It would be an excellent goal if we were all had the same resources, but that goal is unattainable. I'm sorry to say this, but high school students have almost no chance next to them. They don't have the training, facilities, or experience.

[Aren_Hill]

Originally Posted by Lara Surmak

For the people who can see where I'm coming from, thank you. It's nice to know that other people have noticed this

A lot of people have been mentioning that the superior robots are something to strive for. I'm just wondering what high school student has the skill or knowledge to even compare to a professional engineer? It would be an excellent goal if we were all had the same resources, but that goal is unattainable. I'm sorry to say this, but high school students have almost no chance next to them. They don't have the training, facilities, or experience.

Ummmmmm.....in 2008 I was a senior and built a swerve that made JVN jealous (he said it himself to one of his colleagues)

Also the team i was a part of 1625 had a self employed architect as the main "engineering" mentor

oh, also we went 3-2 whole season against them in 2008 with their beautiful piece of engineering simplicity, and then had a robot in 2009 I think they'll admit came out swinging better than they did.

If these the top tier wasn't around who would I strive to beat?
I have the utmost respect for them.

step it up, stop trying to validate mediocrity

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Lara Surmak

I'm just wondering what high school student has the skill or knowledge to even compare to a professional engineer? It would be an excellent goal if we were all had the same resources, but that goal is unattainable. I'm sorry to say this, but high school students have almost no chance next to them. They don't have the training, facilities, or experience.

This is what I call a self-fulfilling prophecy. "We don't have a chance" turns into "Why should we even try" turns into "we don't have a chance" again, only worse.

Most of what I, as an ME senior in college, do every day is stuff that a high school student could probably do if given the equations and values to use. What separates a high school student from me is that I've got extra experience, and hopefully better judgement when it comes to engineering. (I also have an understanding of why the equation is the way it is and what it does.)

To say that the "same resources" goal is unattainable is, quite frankly, defeatist. It's reasonably attainable to get to similar resources with some hard work. And in this game, resources don't always matter. Use of the resources you do have does--I could have a full CNC shop that gets used on "bling" (and a budget to match) and I could easily get beaten by a kitbot or kitbot on steroids built by a team with hand tools where the team uses those hand tools very effectively.

High schoolers do indeed have a chance against an engineer in this competition. It's happened like that several times. But it's better if the students and the engineers are working together. That's what many of these top teams have figured out and mastered.

[Allison K]

Originally Posted by Lara Surmak

For the people who can see where I'm coming from, thank you. It's nice to know that other people have noticed this

A lot of people have been mentioning that the superior robots are something to strive for. I'm just wondering what high school student has the skill or knowledge to even compare to a professional engineer? It would be an excellent goal if we were all had the same resources, but that goal is unattainable. I'm sorry to say this, but high school students have almost no chance next to them. They don't have the training, facilities, or experience.

If a lack of resources (financial, human, material, experience, etc.) is an insurmountable challenge for you/your team at this time, perhaps you could consider a program such as FTC or VEX in which such resources have less on an impact on performance on the field. Both programs could be taken up either instead of or in addition to your FRC participation, and may bring about the knowledge and experience necessary to overcome your FRC challenges.

~Allison

[Libby K]

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=104497

I feel like this is pretty relevant, especially since people are so quick to start harassing each other.

Maybe sharing stories will be a good way to stop it. As a bunch of people have said, let's build each other UP, not tear each other down. If you think there's a discrepancy between teams... learn from the successes.

[Kyle Love]

Originally Posted by Libby K

If you think there's a discrepancy between teams... learn from the successes.

Well said Libby.

Everyone who has seen 1114 evolve into the beast they are now can thoroughly respect their accomplishments.

[Rangel(kf7fdb)]

There is absolutely no reason why any team cannot excel at first as long as they have the determination to do so. I'll use my team as an example. For years our team was struggling to win a regional after winning the world chairmen's award in 2008. The robot itself became the prime focus during build season and every year we did our very best to perfect it in every way we can. Every year we went more and more beyond to make each year a more successful year. For example in 2010, we built our first practice bot along with our regular robot. It was hard because we don't have a very large sponsor base and usually us students and mentors have to pitch in parts out of our own pockets. This practice bot though allowed us to continue developing and practicing with our robot and led us to having the best robot we ever had. In 2011 we extended our mentorship and for the first time had a mechanical engineer on our team and also founded a partnership with FRC 39/FTC 4314. Continuing to find ways to improve your team is key to being successful and it led us to finally winning a regional after 10 years. This year we are still improving ourselves. We don't have a cad class nor have ever used cad. So we taught ourselves cad and for the first time have cadded our robot before it is built. Just look at our past robots. You can see a dramatic improvement in each one and that is with the about the same number of students working on it and about the same amount of money. You are your own limitation. Kudos for 1114 and 2056 for making such spectacular robots every year. Seeing you guys and other "powerhouses" only drives us to be just as good as you guys.

[Chas_G]

I think one of the biggest things that FIRST students, mentors, coaches, alumni, sponsors, etc. need to remember is that it does not matter if your team gets a blue banner. What matters is that all of the parties involved have their lives impacted in a positive manner. There are very few programs (in any area of study) where high school students will get to collaborate with industry professionals. When students are in college or in the field, students who participated in FIRST are going to say "I learned all about these engineering topics" and not "I won this regional when these teams were there!"

I almost wonder if mentors and coaches are judging how well they lead the program by how many banners they have hanging in their shop. Maybe a refocusing is needed on all levels to remember that FIRST isn't about winning competitions.

If you need proof, just look at the name.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Lara Surmak

For the people who can see where I'm coming from, thank you. It's nice to know that other people have noticed this

A lot of people have been mentioning that the superior robots are something to strive for. I'm just wondering what high school student has the skill or knowledge to even compare to a professional engineer? It would be an excellent goal if we were all had the same resources, but that goal is unattainable. I'm sorry to say this, but high school students have almost no chance next to them. They don't have the training, facilities, or experience.

You seem to be under the mistaken assumption that in FIRST students are supposed to do all the work themselves.

[akoscielski3]

Originally Posted by Lara Surmak

For the people who can see where I'm coming from, thank you. It's nice to know that other people have noticed this

A lot of people have been mentioning that the superior robots are something to strive for. I'm just wondering what high school student has the skill or knowledge to even compare to a professional engineer? It would be an excellent goal if we were all had the same resources, but that goal is unattainable. I'm sorry to say this, but high school students have almost no chance next to them. They don't have the training, facilities, or experience.

Me?

Throughout the past two years i have trained myself in SolidWorks, and how to design. I designed about 10 chassis this year alone. And have even started to invent things or come up with ideas to invent.

This season I designed our robot all by myself. For 2 and a half weeks i was in a corner of the build room, in my room, or in class (shh my teachers dont know) designing our 2012 robot DROID. I taught myself how to design, how to make things work on a robot, and how to approach the task at hand. YES I AM A STUDENT IN GRADE 11! We built the robot (yes, us students) in 2 weeks. My dad's company water-jet cut all the sheet metal parts and bent the ones that needed to be bent. Did this take away form me learning? NO. In industry you dont always make a part that you use in an assembly. You get someone else to do it. Or you may design something, and then have someone else build and make it for you. These may be bad examples though. I still got all the knowledge of designing and building an amazing FRC robot. I have to say that our robot this year looks professionally built and works like a pro. JUST LIKE 1114 or 2056, or 188 and 610 for that matter.
So to answer your question about a student doing as well as a pro engineer. Yes a student can do as good.

Guess what. This student designed and built robot is undefeated in 2012, and won the teams First regional ever, Smoky Mountains, with team 234 and 3259.

Get informed before saying a student cant do as good as a professional engineer in the FIRST World.