Security at regionals.

[nick reynolds]

I want to remind everyone of the not so desirable visitors that we get at the Regionals. Each year stuff goes missing by low lifes who pray on our competition. I wish that F.I.R.S.T. would have more security at the Regionals by not alowing any one other than team members in the pit area. If there were visitors who had a genuine interest in the competition then they could be escorted by team members.
A word of advice to every one.
DONT leave stuff out in clear view.
NEVER leave your booth area un-atended, if you have a game ask your next door neighbor to watch your booth while your gone offer to do the same for them when its their turn.
If you see any one walking out of a booth thats not in a team uniform ask what hes doing, if hes honest he will answer you.
Call security if in doubt.
Lets have a theft free competition this year.
Nick237

[E. The Kidd]

The problem with the team member only system is how do you know who is a member and who isn't? After all some teams don't have uniforms and not everyone gets their ASME cards in time for some of the events (or they leave them behind). The best way to handle thefts in my opinion is to do what my team did. After you unpack you tools puts all of the coats, hats, etc., in the empty tool boxes and put wire ties or locks on them. This way if someone tries to take your stuff it would take them a few minutes and attract a lot of attention to themselves.

[Tom Fairchild]

Whoa!!! Not let non-team members into the pits??? Personally I'd never want to go along with that. For example, in Philly last year, our team only sent a small group to compete. We went out to pizza late Thursday night and got to talking to the pizza man. Sure enough, he and his son stopped by the pits the next day so he could show his son all the neat robots. Now if we had to sign him in or anything like that, the experience never would have happened. Basically just keep an eye on your stuff and always try to have one person from your team stay in the pits at all times.

~Tom Fairchild~, who loved having the pizza man stop by.

[Carolyn Duncan]

While I think that this is a good topic to discuss I must frown on your crappy choice of words, Nick. I also feel that you have need a check lately... But anyway, not allowing non team members into pits would be disasterous to FIRST. We already have very little publicity so anyone who wants to get into the pits and see what FIRST is like should be granted acces. A also think you should realize this: non FIRST people would be less likely to steal something. I mean what does a spectator want with some parts? And maybe stolen tools are the result of borrowing and not getting returned (not intentionally). I know it happens but hey live and learn. Everywhere you go you run into theft probs, if you have half a brain you dont leave anything valuable sitting around. Common sense tells you, "no don't leave the video camera sitting where anyone can pick it up..." Basic rule of thumb: if it's something you like keep an eye on it, if it'ssomething someone else may like keep a hand on it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it isn't FIRSTs job to have rent-a-cops running around making sure that johnny's camera doesnt get stollen off his teams pit table and that sally's purse stays in her teams pit. Having pit watch is a good idea, just change it up and don't expect the watcher to keep watch over really valuable stuff that isnt theirs.

[patrickrd]

Let's not get upset about something just because of a different opinion. I thank Nick for his reminder to be cautious during the competitions, and also for his suggestions on possible solutions. Security last year was an issue -- I hear stories from a number of teams not only about stolen tools, but more expensive things such as cameras and laptop computers. While I do not like the idea of letting only team members in the pit area, that is only my opinion. I think the best solution is the main point of Nick's post -- just keep in mind that your stuff might be taken if it is left unattended.

Patrick

[nick reynolds]

Carolyn... Let me "enlighten" you to a personal expierience that happened at our Regional 2 years ago in Hartford CT. Our Team had the H.E.R.O. booth (Helping Every Robot Organization ). We had a booth full of Spare parts and Materials and these Parts were available to any team that was in need. Our motto was "Need a part Take a part, Got a Part Give a Part".
We found out that many of the new teams were compeeting on a Bare Budget and could not afford Tools so we set up a Tool Loan System. I personaly Bought $1000 worth of new Tools for this use. Every Tool Borrowed was immidiatly returned, we never lost a single item.
For three days every thing went well, in fact the Idea was so popular that we were noticed by the Judges for our effort. We were awarded the Team Spirit Award.
While we were on stage being awarded the Team Spirit Trophy some one decided to Take our Tools, The Tools were In a Very large Trunk and took Two People to move it. Every Team member at our Regional benifited from our H.E.R.O. booth and I dont believe for a minute that it was taken by one of them.
At that same competition one team lost a LapTop, another lost cameras so what kind of CRAPPY words would you use to describe a THIEF.
I dont mince words. The whole Idea of my post was to inform and remind. When your at the competition its easy to get caught up in the Hype and Excitement and things do get left out for all to see. Not every one is as Trusting as you and its great that you have never been a victim.
My post was a reminder to the older and more Expierienced Teams and a Heads up to the Rookie Teams.
Accusing me and others of having "HALF A BRAIN" for leaving Valuable stuff out was not called for and totaly out of order, However if you would like to soften the taste this left in my mouth then I would be happy to except your Check for my Personal losses ($1000.00).
Nick237

[Kyle Fenton]

I am sorry to hear that Nick. Our team has had bad experiences in the past, and we say, "Anything you bring to the competition, you keep with you for the entire competition." I was really shocked that someone could move a whole tool box without anyone noticing. However our team lost a digital camera that was a gift to us. Which was pretty bad. It is always the sad truth that a couple of students would steal.

I always wanted FIRST to provide us with a "lock box" (a real one, not Al Gore's), or at least rent out lockers for the day. Our team always has at least a guy in the pits at all times, and if they weren't that everything would be locked up. Another thing, I think would be nice, but would never happen, is having security cameras in the pits and view them in the competition area, to see any suspicious activity.

[nick reynolds]

Kyle. Im sorry to hear of your loss too but I dont believe that any student would steal from another team. If you look at how much is stolen from teams at the Nationals compared to whats taken at a Regional you will see a vast difference.
The Regionals are a magnet for Locals to come and pick up any free stuff lying around, at the Regionals any one can enter and walk around. At the Nationals the only people walking around that are not team members are Tourists who happen to be also in Florida.
At the Regionals we should have some Security but the only people who are working at these events are in the stands watching the games or they are no where to be seen at all.
We had several Cars broken into while parked in the parking lot in Hartford, where was the Security and why werent they doing their job?.
The teams pay to be in the regionals and should expect some sort of protection from "LOW LIFES". I call a thief a thief because thats what he is, I dont believe he does what he does because he had a hard up bringing or was abused in a past life but some bleeding heart Liberals would forgive these thieves because of some excuse or another. These are the people who have never been robbed or injured by some poor miss guided "LOW LIFE".
Nick237

[gniticxe]

I'm not so sure that not a single team member would ever steal anything from another team's pit. Sure, I wouldn't, nor would anyone on my team (I think), but sadly it is possible. Gracious Professionalism might not be top priority on the mind's of some team members - perhaps getting the tool to fix the robot is. Further, speaking for my team, we bring quite a few specialty tools that an average 'local' probably would have no use for - and I don't know if the 'thrill' of stealing would get them to take whatever it is.
This year, my team got a sponsorship from Airline Hydraulics for BOSCH parts for a pit area. Included in the design of one of the tables is a locking door. Yeah, its on wheels (legs extend to hold secure), but I don't think anyone will be wheeling off this 6x2 table
Thanks for the heads up Mr. Reynolds.

[Dan 550]

Pit area security is truly bad during the award ceremonies. Last year at Philly (2001) we were all the way down there in 44th place (And those of you that were there will remember that there were 45 teams in attendance. Our bot may have been simple and junky looking, but it was not totally our fault that we got 44th; it was the two matches we had back to back that scored about a dozen points each due to robotic failures on the bridge by other teams that dropped us from 15th to 38th in ten minutes...), so we weren't competing in the finals. We boxed up all our stuff, locked the stuff that didn't fit in the robot crate that we closed up, and walked away. I took the laptop we had and went to watch the remaining matches and the finals, and save all of our pictures to the hard disk and play a little Starcraft. The laptop bag that I left at our pit was mysteriously gone when we got back, stolen. Luckily, only the battery charger and a serial cable were in there, so I didn't lose anything I didn't have an extra one of, but thievery still occurred. One of the teams in a nearby booth lost two laptops, though. Goes to show you what some people will do while they are somewhere they don't belong.

[Carolyn Duncan]

Ok Nick, a little clarification of my last post. Nowhere in my post did I say I was never a victim of thievery. In fact I was a victim last year at Regionals, and it was at the hands of a person on my team. Losing $1000. isn't something to leave a good taste in anyones mouth but it couldn't have been bad enough to turn you off from FIRST.
OK, now a few things to clear up:
1.) I did say this "if you have half a brain you dont leave anything valuable sitting around." Now I was not using the pronoun "you" to mean specificaly Nick Reynolds rather it was a general use meant to refer to all those in such a position as I relayed. I was not accusing anyone of having half a brain.
2.) By my saying this: "And maybe stolen tools are the result of borrowing and not getting returned (not intentionally)." I hope that is not where your bleeding heart liberal comment came from. Because that is way off.
3.) As for your $1000.00 loss, if I had $1000.00 I would gladly hand you the cash. No questions asked and no strings attached. That's the kind of person I am.

I do think that you missed the main part of my post so allow me to itterate...
"not allowing non team members into pits would be disasterous to FIRST. We already have very little publicity so anyone who wants to get into the pits and see what FIRST is like should be granted acces"

"Common sense tells you, "no don't leave the video camera sitting where anyone can pick it up..." Basic rule of thumb: if it's something you like keep an eye on it, if it'ssomething someone else may like keep a hand on it. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it isn't FIRSTs job to have rent-a-cops running around making sure that johnny's camera doesnt get stollen off his teams pit table and that sally's purse stays in her teams pit. Having pit watch is a good idea, just change it up and don't expect the watcher to keep watch over really valuable stuff that isnt theirs.
and just to show that I didn't miss the point of your original post...

"I think that this is a good topic to discuss"
I think that covers most of it. Hopefully my wording is such that you can't twist it too bad now.

[A. Leese]

Yikes. It's amazing how heated arguements get in here.

Anyway...maybe my team is lucky but we've never had anything taken. Maybe because we always have several adults and students at our pit (mainly b/c we always seem to be working on fixing our bot). I don't know. We have just learned that if you want to keep anything of your own that's costly in the pit, you give it to the designated adult who's job is to hold onto cameras or whatever. It's always worked well. I really don't know what to say besides the general hold onto what's not cheap to replace or don't bring it at all.

[nick reynolds]

My Turn to clear a few things.
You said.
1) ***Losing $1000. isn't something to leave a good taste in anyones mouth but it couldn't have been bad enough to turn you off from FIRST. ***
Where did you come up with me being TURNED OFF FROM F.I.R.S.T. No where did I say I was turned OFF from F.I.R.S.T. in my innocent post giving warning to those who might have forgotten or be newbies.
2) ***I did say this "if you have half a brain you dont leave anything valuable sitting around."***
Your use of the word "YOU" is used twice in the above statement, yes I took it to mean ME.
3) ***And maybe stolen tools are the result of borrowing and not getting returned (not intentionally)." I hope that is not where your bleeding heart liberal comment came from.***
The Bleeding Heart Liberal came form your objection to me calling thieves "LOW LIFES", Your words were...I must frown on your crappy choice of words. Believe me the words that I wanted to call these "Crappy Low Lifes" Would Positivly not be worthy of posting here.
Lastly.
4) ***not allowing non team members into pits would be disasterous to FIRST.
Let me tell you some thing, the first time a visitor get injured in the pit in any part of the Regionals F.I.R.S.T. will have all the publicity it can ever want, and 10 seconds after that "ALL" visitors will cease being alowed into the pit area publicity or no publicity. We all know how hectic it is in the pits and thats with teams that reasonably know whats going on but visitors have no clue.
Some one being seriously hurt in the pit area is a disaster waiting to happen.
So I propose this Idea, There are a couple of hours on Thursday in the morning and lunch times. Also there is a period of time on Saturday when no Robots are being moved about these would be ideal times for Visitors to walk around and talk to teams.
If SME can put out ID Cards then why cant F.I.R.S.T. No one would be alowed in the pit area with out one on and this would also releeve some of the confusion in the pits. I dont think there is any one who has not had a toe, shin or elbow contact another teams robot while trying to get to the staging area for their next game.
so thats my .02c
nick237

[David Kelly]

the same things are being repeated and its kinda getting personal and out of hand. maybe this one should be locked, brandon

[Tom Fairchild]

I second the motion.....