Spotters

[Pengiun Joe]

One thing that has come to my attention is this: Visibility on the other side of the playing field is going to be tough. Keeping track of whats going on (just getting clamped onto the goal on the other side of the field in 2001 was hard) will be a big deal.
So, my question is what do people think about having spotters? What if a team had someone who was up in the stands and could see the other side, and they either somehow electronically transmitted the data (I'm not quite sure how under the conditions) or used large posterboard cards or something, to let the drive team know how many points the other team has, what the robots are doing, etc.
I think it could be done, but my two questions are would it really be feasible, and would it be morally right?

[Johca_Gaorl]

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...threadid=16004

I think this would be morally wrong, as we are allowed 4 people, that's all you got. Get the 7' guy on your team to be the coach

*edit*
Ok, maybe not morally wrong, but I think it would be, I don't want to say unfair, but not right IMO, you have the 4 members on your team, essentially adding another is against the rules. The screen doesn't sound like it was placed right, it should be placed on the side of the field where the player stations are not.

[meaubry]

No - to the electronically transmitted via radio or anything that could interfere with the radio transmitters used to drive the robots.
Not a morality problem - as long as the information isn't transmitted electronically (large poster cards are okay). If you don't break the rules as stated by FIRST, then what is morally wrong about that ?
Yes, each team is allowed 4 players on the field and as many fans in the stands as they can muster - nothing in the rules about communicating with those fans as a means to assist the 4 on the floor except that it can't be done electronically.
Besides, the 7 ft tall guy may still have problems with certain sight lines.
Just my 2 cents, what do others think??

[Bduggan04]

I don't know if this is really "morally wrong". Was it wrong when one team could see the large screen at a regional while the other alliance had their back to it? That projector was an extra drive team member. Is there anything stopping all of the teams from doing it? If all the teams have the opportunity, the gained advantage is far from unfair.

[jonathan lall]

I don't believe this is even legal (pretty much a grey area), and much less morally right. Hand signals from the human players anyone? You're right though, that really is going to be a big issue.

[tatsak42]

I wouldn't. Last year, we had people trying to yell at them, just because of the intensity and excitement, but obviously, the drivers tuned mostly all the noise out. Gaining an unfair advantage any way is an iffy no kind of thing.

[Gadget470]

First, the question at hand:

What if a team had someone who was up in the stands and could see the other side, and they either somehow electronically transmitted the data (I'm not quite sure how under the conditions)

DQ8 Team members may not use any remote communication devices, such as air phones,
walkie-talkies, etc., at anytime during a FIRST Robotics Competition event. These
devices may cause interference to the remote control signals and malfunction of robots.
Teams found to violating this rule will be subject to the following penalties:
1. First offense, you will be asked to turn off and store the device;
2. Second offense, the device will be confiscated for the remainder of the event and the
offender will not be able to participate in his/her team’s next scheduled match.
Cell phones and pagers are allowed, but not in the Alliance Station. Remote cameras
mounted to a robot are also allowed if specific permission is granted by FIRST.

If you don't break the rules as stated by FIRST, then what is morally wrong about that ?

Gracious Professionalism makes it wrong. It's called a challange folks.. keep it challanging or design around it. Having members of your team basically saying "The bot is tilted to the right a bit" is not fair to teams who don't have help.

I know the whole issue with fair/not fair but specifically designing a mechanism for communication with your team via something other than the robot to the drivers should not be allowed. Whether or not the rules state it, it is not gracious nor professional to hold signs up stating positions.

[meaubry]

So if the crowd were able to say ... share the same information with every team it would be okay then? right?

[DanLevin247]

Originally posted by Gadget470

Gracious Professionalism makes it wrong.

Gadget couldn't have put it better. It reminds me of NHL Hitz, where fans hold up cards with codes on them while you play...it's cheating...in a way, and I for one, if I see kids holding a card that says ( 4 boxes!!!! ) or something along the lines of that, I will be very dissapointed.




Also, in the heat of competiton, it might be difficult for a drive team member to look up from the field and read something in the distance. I wish there was a rule aganst this.

[Bduggan04]

Originally posted by Gadget470
Gracious Professionalism makes it wrong. It's called a challange folks.. keep it challanging or design around it. Having members of your team basically saying "The bot is tilted to the right a bit" is not fair to teams who don't have help.

I know the whole issue with fair/not fair but specifically designing a mechanism for communication with your team via something other than the robot to the drivers should not be allowed. Whether or not the rules state it, it is not gracious nor professional to hold signs up stating positions.

Why can't all of the teams "have help" from the other members of the team. This is in no way unfair because anyone could do it. Maybe Gracious professionalism will be highlighted by the crowd (the same one that Dean wants larger and more excitied) can aid the drivers to both alliances.

But I'll say it in this thread too. Put tall flags on your robot.

[Johca_Gaorl]

Originally posted by Bduggan04
Why can't all of the teams "have help" from the other members of the team. This is in no way unfair because anyone could do it. Maybe Gracious professionalism will be highlighted by the crowd (the same one that Dean wants larger and more excitied) can aid the drivers to both alliances.

But I'll say it in this thread too. Put tall flags on your robot.

Because you are having 4 people on each team play the game, not everyone in the stadium.

And flags can only be up to 60" high, they'd have to be in the box too.

[Bduggan04]

Originally posted by Johca_Gaorl
Because you are having 4 people on each team play the game, not everyone in the stadium.

And flags can only be up to 60" high, they'd have to be in the box too.

You have to have them START in the box.

[Bduggan04]

Also, be it location help or not, the crowd plays a large role in these competitions. Drive the robot at your school with 20 people. Then drive it in a building in front of several thousand. The cheering, the noise, the pressure all have a part to play in the game. The crowd already helps drivers by cheering loudly if something good happens, this might just add another dimension to it.

[HolyMasamune]

I don't think theres anything wrong about doing that in the rulebook, but it will be hard for the drivers to pay attention to the signs/yelling when they have to concentrate on driving. However, I think it's morally wrong to have an unfair advantage (yes I know the world isn't fair, and neither is this competition). Spotting is a big part of the game, as is strategy and the robot itself, so I think it is up to the drivers and the people in the driving area to figure it out. I think the people watching would have more fun too.

[evulish]

Visibility shouldn't be that bad anyways. So theres a ramp. Big deal. We've had ramps before. Have your coach run to the other side of the players station or something. Or get taller drivers