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Unread 19-03-2012, 16:59
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

I think I've noticed a pattern in who these failures happen to.

They're ALL using LabVIEW... Has there been a single failure of this type with a C++ or Java team?
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Unread 19-03-2012, 16:59
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

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Originally Posted by dbarr4011 View Post
HELP.... We ordered a new D-Link radio and power converter today but I think there is an issue on the Field Control Access Point.
Your symptoms do point to the radio power dropping out momentarily. If you reconnect after 40 seconds then the power to the radio was interrupted.

Replacing the radio and converter are a good start, but don't overlook the Power Distribution Board. Also, check the connection to the barrel plug on the D-Link. (Many teams use hot glue, tape, etc to ensure a somewhat better connection).

I am wondering if PWBs in the radios are being damaged internally this year due to the harder shocks that robots are taking (falling off the bridge, going over the bump). The D-link radios were designed to sit on a desk, not to take high-G impacts. Might be worth it to make sure the radio isn't rigidly mounted to the frame.
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Unread 19-03-2012, 17:13
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

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Originally Posted by dbarr4011 View Post
The Field controls personal said our radio reset. I am questioning this answer because I see the radio takes about 1 1/2 minutes to power-up and starts its wireless communications. We loss communications for about 40 seconds. After 40 seconds we are off and running again.
While a DAP-1522's expected link-up time is 50+ seconds after a reset, 40 seconds is almost exactly right for communication to be reestablished after a cRIO reset.

I watched one D-Link DAP-1522 consistently work in less than 30 seconds after a complete power cycle of the robot. It was, to put it mildly, unexpectedly quick. This was not using wireless, but it's still faster than I generally see with a wired connection.
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Unread 19-03-2012, 18:21
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

Quote:
I think I've noticed a pattern in who these failures happen to.

They're ALL using LabVIEW... Has there been a single failure of this type with a C++ or Java team?
We're running Java and had the same problem multiple times at the Oregon Regional. Other teams were having problems as well.
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Unread 19-03-2012, 18:33
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

I was FTAA at the regional at Utah this last week, and we were having similar problems. The FTA found that every team on the field had high trip times (>30ms) when there was a team with a D-Link running firmware version 1.4.

We has the CSA downgrade those bridges to v1.2 of the firmware and all of the trip times went back down to normal. I am not sure if this is the same problem that everyone else was having, but downgrading the firmware on any of the older bridges running 1.4 seemed to help.

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Unread 19-03-2012, 19:28
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

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Originally Posted by MrClintBarnes View Post
I was FTAA at the regional at Utah this last week, and we were having similar problems. The FTA found that every team on the field had high trip times (>30ms) when there was a team with a D-Link running firmware version 1.4.

We has the CSA downgrade those bridges to v1.2 of the firmware and all of the trip times went back down to normal. I am not sure if this is the same problem that everyone else was having, but downgrading the firmware on any of the older bridges running 1.4 seemed to help.

-Clint
I hope FRC ensures that every robot on the field is running v1.2 going forward.
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Unread 19-03-2012, 19:33
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

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Originally Posted by Jared341 View Post
I hope FRC ensures that every robot on the field is running v1.2 going forward.
I am sure that the FTAs and FIRST staff will look into this and, hopefully, we will see a response from them at the next events.
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Unread 19-03-2012, 19:54
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

We also had this issue at the LA regional, and were advised that there was a "general issue with the field" by the FTA. I was informed that it was causing control problems and sending reset commands to robots.

I'm not sure if this was the cause, but I think it may explain some of the problems that occurred to various teams, including 2637.
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Unread 19-03-2012, 22:54
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

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Originally Posted by 1075guy View Post
I think I've noticed a pattern in who these failures happen to.

They're ALL using LabVIEW... Has there been a single failure of this type with a C++ or Java team?
Our team at Sacramento/Davis coded in C++ and we had this problem.

The odd part was that we were only hit by dropped packets on Saturday. Team 3256 was also hit by this however they might have fixed it by halving the resolution on both of their cameras.
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Unread 21-03-2012, 10:22
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

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Originally Posted by Alan Anderson View Post
While a DAP-1522's expected link-up time is 50+ seconds after a reset, 40 seconds is almost exactly right for communication to be reestablished after a cRIO reset.

I watched one D-Link DAP-1522 consistently work in less than 30 seconds after a complete power cycle of the robot. It was, to put it mildly, unexpectedly quick. This was not using wireless, but it's still faster than I generally see with a wired connection.
We had a problem at VCU where we would lose comms during the match, and the cycle time was about 40 seconds so we blamed the cRIO rebooting but couldn't figure it out. No problems showed up when tethered in the pits, and couldn't get a slot on the practice field. It turned out to be that the radio was not connected to the regulated supply on the PD board and was cycling when voltage dropped. This was noticed by our FTA who was able to watch the robot from a close vantage point and saw the radio reboot.

We had a handful of problems plauge us throughout Friday, but they were all traced to robot issues and not FMS. (bad jag, bad motor, improper wiring)

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Unread 21-03-2012, 11:14
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

We had issues last year with the D-Link disconnecting. We competed in two regionals before tracing it to the barrel plug, which we purchased from Radio Shack. The ID of this Barrel plug was slightly larger than the AC adapter cord that came with the D-Link. We changed the Barrel plug, using the one that came with the D-Link and the problem went away.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 18:54
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

I actually had an oscilloscope at the MAR Mount Olive District event and someone took the time to check the power on a teams robot that was experiencing these symptoms. This was a 25Mhz analog scope and there were no issues.

Immediately I suggested it could be the camera feed, but it seemed like the other teams who were helping them were using it with better success. I also suggested it could be the CAN bus or somehow related to an interaction with the CAN bridge in the Jaguar....not to toss any blame on the Jaguars...I was merely speculating.

They were using LabView. We don't use LabView and I am not clear on how LabView handles exotic exception situations during communications.

When they turned off their video (which was a serious handicap for them) they could reliably control their robot on the field. As soon as they started using it again they had problems again.

I would like to point out, that I was told our field was apparently configured with 802.11G and everything was sitting on channel 6. I was told that's how it was setup and we all had to deal with it (even Team 11 and we were the host). That would mean that the most you can hope for is 54Mbps. However, with distance, interference, TCP/IP loading issues (it's a reliable protocol and if you don't understand the implications do some research or this will get too complicated to follow) you don't really have 54Mbps.

If what I was told was correct, this is going to be a problem if your robot is bandwidth hungry.

Last edited by techhelpbb : 02-04-2012 at 22:22.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 19:07
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1075guy View Post
I think I've noticed a pattern in who these failures happen to.

They're ALL using LabVIEW... Has there been a single failure of this type with a C++ or Java team?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale View Post
We're running Java and had the same problem multiple times at the Oregon Regional. Other teams were having problems as well.
Yup, our teams runs a javabot, and we had the same problem during our practice matches. Our problem was that there were a few inappropriately handled errors and too many output statements causing major peaks in our cRIO's CPU usage. Having a robot project where the loop iterates as fast as possible can also drive up that CPU usage.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 19:17
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

Quote:
Originally Posted by techhelpbb View Post
I would like to point out, that I was told our field was apparently configured with 802.11G and everything was sitting on channel 6. That's how it was setup and we all had to deal with it (even Team 11 and we were the host). This means that the most you can hope for is 54Mbps. However, with distance, interference, TCP/IP loading issues (it's a reliable protocol and if you don't understand the implications do some research or this will get too complicated to follow) you don't really have 54Mbps.

If what I was told was correct, this is going to be a problem if your robot is bandwidth hungry.
It wasn't. The field setup uses 5GHz as you can see with a 5GHz NIC or by looking at your radio setup after programming.
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Unread 02-04-2012, 19:31
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Re: Intermittent connection on field only

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Originally Posted by RufflesRidge View Post
It wasn't. The field setup uses 5GHz as you can see with a 5GHz NIC or by looking at your radio setup after programming.
The one field I have seen up close had all the robot networks on channel 60, not 6.
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