van door motor ID

[philso]

We just received some left side van door motor assemblies from a scrap yard. One has a round Bosch motor so it is probably not legal. The second one has a motor that looks like the one on the AndyMark web site. The label on it says "Delphi Interiors PN16635160 REV 001 TAIGENE 01.12.19 121301 102249". The one on the AndyMark website has the part number PN16635161 and looks like it is the may be a "right side" motor. The scrap yards had left and right and I took a guess. Is it likely that this motor will be legal to use?

Thanks.

Phil

[jspatz1]

The motor does not need to be the same model as the KOP van door motor, it only needs to be documented as a door, window, or seat motor coming from an ARA salvage yard that participates in the FIRST voucher program.

[EricH]

You got two motors, sold as van door motors, from a scrap yard. If this was under your ARA donation, that's perfectly legal--just make sure you have the documentation handy for your inspector.

If it's not under the ARA donation, you'll need to ask the GDC if motors donated by a scrapyard that isn't an ARA member are legal under the ARA donation.

[Nate Laverdure]

The van door motors provided in pre-2012 KOPs are:

• 2008: Taigene 16640238
• 2006: Bosch 16636815
• 2005: Taigene 16638628, 16644829
• 2004:
• 2003:
• 2002:
• 2001: Bosch
• 2000: Taigene
• 1999: Taigene
  

[philso]

Does it matter if I purchased the motors? I am not sure if the scrap yard I used is a member of ARA.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Phil,
If they are valid recycled window motors then they are legal.
Under R48
I. up to 2 window lift, seat, windshield wiper or door motors obtained through either the FIRST-Automotive Recyclers Association partnership or from a prior years’ KOP. We understand that many teams have not received ARA documentation when they picked similar motors. Is that your case?

[Nate Laverdure]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

...many teams have not received ARA documentation when they picked similar motors.

Al, there's a Q&A entry that explicitly addresses this question:

Originally Posted by FRC3288, 2012-02-16

Q. We have a sponsor of our team who owns and operates an automotive recycling yard. However he is not a member of the ARA. Are we able to use window motors recycled from vehicles in his yard?
A. Per Rule [R48-I], a motor from an old car must be obtained through either the FIRST-Automotive Recyclers Association partnership or from a prior years’ KOP to be legal for use.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Nate,
That is not the issue, teams are going to ARA recyclers who are not aware of any documentation. They simply hand over the motors.

[Nate Laverdure]

I understand. So the scrap motors must be sourced through the FIRST-ARA program, even though evidence of this is not being provided.

To the OP, then: I'd suggest you contact the scrapyard and ask if they're a member of the ARA.

[Gary Dillard]

Phil - searching the ARA site there are 11 ARA members within 25 miles of Houston. If he's not a member, maybe he would be willing to give the parts to another scrapyard who is so they could give them to you and you'll be (technically) legal.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Please communicate with your on site LRI. Let them look over the motor and make a decision then.

[philso]

Thanks for all the advice.

I called the scrap yard and they are not a member of ARA. It is amazing the range of prices ($30 to $600). I can understand that rules are rules but it seems that what the GDC should be more interested in what the motor is (what is on the label) than where one buys it.

Who/what is the LRI?

If I pick up another one from an ARA scrap yard, should I print out the member listing from the ARA web site? I find that most of the staff at these scrap yards are very "to the point" and are not likely to to be willing to go out of their way to send extra documentation.

Thanks again.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by philso

Who/what is the LRI?

Lead robot inspector (for your event).

Originally Posted by philso

If I pick up another one from an ARA scrap yard, should I print out the member listing from the ARA web site? I find that most of the staff at these scrap yards are very "to the point" and are not likely to to be willing to go out of their way to send extra documentation.

Print their listing. Also provide a copy of the bill of sale (hopefully describing the part for what it is). If it just provides a part number, see if you can cross-reference the number to a diagram or description (e.g. using another website that sells the part).

The inspector will have to make a ruling on whether that's enough proof—odds are it will be, but if the bill is just a piece of old-fashioned cash register tape, maybe a business card or something will help your case.

Originally Posted by philso

It is amazing the range of prices ($30 to $600).

Be careful for items over $400. Cost accounting rules may come into play (potentially even if you can convince them to give you one for free).

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Tristan,
The motors are not purchased from ARA members they are donated through a partnership with FIRST. Only motors from ARA members are acceptable but we have heard that not all ARA members are willing to produce the paperwork describing the part.
Phil,
Whatever documentation you can produce will help your cause. Work with the LRI at your event. He/she can make decisions at that time.

[Gary Dillard]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Tristan,
Only motors from ARA members are acceptable

Al, I'd like to clarify. That statement is true for motors that have never been included in the KOP. If he did have a motor with a part number that matched a previous year's KOP it wouldn't matter where it came from; GDC ruled that way in saying that FIRST choice didn't need to be added as an allowable source for the Van Door motor because it had been included in a previous year's KOP.