Courtesy during awards.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Bob Steele

Do you think the whole team should go up to receive the chairman's award?
finalist, champion?
Why should the other awards be any different?

Yes I think the whole team should go up for Chairmans, Winner, Finalist, etc.

Originally Posted by Dancin103

Akash,
For example, if the team wins KPCB Entrepreneurship, it took the whole team to compile that business plan to where it is.

All in all, this is a team, and not about the I's or the sub teams. Sorry, but I disagree with you.

Cassie

entrepreneurship was a bad example on my part. Depending on how your awards teams operate, you could have a few up to many students/mentors working on a submission and actually creating the business plan.

Haha, I didn't say you had to agree with what I thought about certain awards, no need to be sorry for that. I simply appreciate it when large teams send up a few students to receive something like website and animation awards because those were, in fact, only worked on by certain students/mentors.

I see this as something opposite of what most of you said. I see it as allowing certain students to be recognized in front of their own team but also other teams for something specific they have done. So no, I don't think Websites and animations are worked on by an entire team - if they are on your team, then that's awesome. I simply think that recognition of a few for these specific awards is important rather than sending up an entire team. The fact that a few minutes of time are saved- okay sure maybe I was a little harsh there, but hey everyone likes getting to a comfy bed as soon as competition day is done!

And Andrew- people reading these posts can form an opinion on their own.

[Kevin Sevcik]

Question for the peanut gallery: Is it rude or inconsiderate for a member of a large team to insist on hugging, shaking hands, or talking with every single judge, delaying the awards ceremony for everyone? Related question is if it would be rude for a team to stand around for 5 min before walking for their award because they were waiting on an absent member. Basically, at what point do you think a team delaying the ceremony would start to be inconsiderate?

[BigJ]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Question for the peanut gallery: Is it rude or inconsiderate for a member of a large team to insist on hugging, shaking hands, or talking with every single judge, delaying the awards ceremony for everyone?

I've never seen this happen (except for WFFA, but at the events I normallly frequent, WI, IL, and MN, the WFFA is awarded and congratulated by all other WFFA winners in attendance), but I could understand it for the last award of the night (WFFA or Chairman's).

Related question is if it would be rude for a team to stand around for 5 min before walking for their award because they were waiting on an absent member. Basically, at what point do you think a team delaying the ceremony would start to be inconsiderate?

I've never seen a team not stream onto the field, maybe with a couple stragglers. I think waiting around unless you're around 5 or less people who were somehow much closer would be rude.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by BigJ

I've never seen this happen (except for WFFA, but at the events I normallly frequent, WI, IL, and MN, the WFFA is awarded and congratulated by all other WFFA winners in attendance), but I could understand it for the last award of the night (WFFA or Chairman's). I've never seen a team not stream onto the field, maybe with a couple stragglers. I think waiting around unless you're around 5 or less people who were somehow much closer would be rude.

I've seen both, several times at regionals. (I'd say it's mildly inconsiderate, but nothing to be too concerned about.)

It's historically been more complicated at the Championship, because the field can be so difficult to access from the stands. At some point (by 2004 for sure), FIRST started asking teams to designate a few members to accept awards. (I don't know what procedure was used in St. Louis last year.)

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

Haha, I didn't say you had to agree with what I thought about certain awards, no need to be sorry for that. I simply appreciate it when large teams send up a few students to receive something like website and animation awards because those were, in fact, only worked on by certain students/mentors.

Interesting that you would pick animation as an award you think only a few work on.

For those of you who don't know I started out doing animation and have been a website mentor for several years now. I can absolutely say that the notion that these subteams don't work hand in hand with the entire team is absolutely wrong. The team must support them in their passions, they must provide content for the website, ideas for the animation, and feedback on both. There is nothing more discouraging than hearing someone tell you that what you are doing doesn't matter or even not backing you up on what you're interested in.

By your logic I shouldn't go up with my team if they win an award for a mechanical system or a cool construction technique because I had nothing to do with it. I think even you would think this is stupid.

If you can't find the extra time to wait for the WHOLE team to celebrate their team's accomplishment I suggest you find a new hobby. I believe in celebrating greatness in all forms, even if it involves celebrating people who supported their team mates. Actually, strike that, I think that people who support their team mates should be celebrated especially hard.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

Interesting that you would pick animation as an award you think only a few work on.

For those of you who don't know I started out doing animation and have been a website mentor for several years now. I can absolutely say that the notion that these subteams don't work hand in hand with the entire team is absolutely wrong. The team must support them in their passions, they must provide content for the website, ideas for the animation, and feedback on both. There is nothing more discouraging than hearing someone tell you that what you are doing doesn't matter or even not backing you up on what you're interested in.

By your logic I shouldn't go up with my team if they win an award for a mechanical system or a cool construction technique because I had nothing to do with it. I think even you would think this is stupid.

If you can't find the extra time to wait for the WHOLE team to celebrate their team's accomplishment I suggest you find a new hobby. I believe in celebrating greatness in all forms, even if it involves celebrating people who supported their team mates. Actually, strike that, I think that people who support their team mates should be celebrated especially hard.

If that is how your team operates, then by all means send them all up if you truly believe everyone lends a hand in the work. I simply disagree.
And yes I brought up website and animation specifically because I do think that only a few work on these things and deserve to be recognized in front of their peers. If you want to continue to argue about opinion, PM me.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

And yes I brought up website and animation specifically because I do think that only a few work on these things and deserve to be recognized in front of their peers. If you want to continue to argue about opinion, PM me.

I'd prefer to talk about facts -- such as the fact that a lot of good team web sites have content contributed by many team members. It's not just the web "coders" who are responsible for the award-winning sites.

[gyroscopeRaptor]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I'd prefer to talk about facts -- such as the fact that a lot of good team web sites have content contributed by many team members. It's not just the web "coders" who are responsible for the award-winning sites.

Say a website has a photo gallery. All students are in the photos there. Each photo is then contributing to the content of the website which I believe is one of the evaluative criteria. Each person has contributed and should walk on stage.

[Gray Adams]

Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor

Say a website has a photo gallery. All students are in the photos there. Each photo is then contributing to the content of the website which I believe is one of the evaluative criteria. Each person has contributed and should walk on stage.

If you're trying to say that you believe all members should walk on the stage based on a technicality, you should probably rethink your position. I'm not saying that not every member should go up, but that's a really weak reason for taking this position.

[Big Ideas]

As for FAMILY members walking, I say yes. Here is my reasoning:

As a volunteer for various activities for many years I have observed that:

the volunteers give their expertise but the FAMILY gives their TIME.

If a Mentors child (Robot Orphan) feels invested in the team enough to celebrate with the team, they should.

This holds true for post season parties also. Teams should celebrate and thank the families also.

[robochick1319]

When I played sports as a child, my father would always say, "You play as a team, you win as a team, you lose as a team."

Therefore, I do not think there is anything wrong with letting entire teams go up (even parents). Whoever wants to go up to accept the award should go and teams can use their best judgment. And if a team is oblivious to a faux pas that others find annoying, other teams in the audience should be GRACIOUS (that is what the term means, after all).

Should the entire team go up for website? Of course! The entire team would go up if they won the regional or if they won an imagery award. It is a motto for my team: We win and lose as a team. No matter what, we are all together.

Why is this even a big issue anyway? Aren't there more pressing issues for FIRST fans to address? Like blatant safety violations, overcrowding of venues and inconsistencies between regionals?

[rcmolloy]

Paraphrasing a student, "Regardless of how many students actually worked on something or put effort into that part of the team, I do believe that each student should be able to walk and receive a high five because that will ultimately build the most confidence and let the student embrace the winning aspect much more."

[ttldomination]

Frankly, I don't quite care what people do during the award ceremonies as long as they do not hint a level of disrespect.

For example, during the Friday award ceremonies a couple of members and I sat in the pits and talked about the day, and the day to come. We didn't feel like standing in the crowd, and so instead of hanging around in the stands, we returned to the pits.

Another example is that on Saturday, during the closing awards, we sat in the stands and politely clapped for all of the awards. The only award I actually stood up for was the Chairman's Award, and that too wasn't because of the award, but because of the caliber with which 1311 had presented themselves.

Honestly, this is slightly ridiculous. I understand drawing a line on not disrespecting teams, more specifically, booing teams or not clapping for teams, etc. But to dictate how I choose to show my support and/or appreciation for a team seems...incorrect.

- Sunny G.

[popnbrown]

Well, Sunny, the original point was that we, as mentors (and I assume you are), are just that mentors. We're not only trying to promote STEM and Robots here at FIRST but we're promoting something bigger than that, which is GP and Coopertition.

While there's absolutely nothing we can to dictate how you choose to show your support, I think the point that should be driven home, is that unless you seriously seriously have an objection to who got the award and you really really need to consider your objection, it's your duty as a mentor to teach your students gracious professionalism. After all you're essentially a role model to them, whether you think it or not, they do look up to you.

Even if you have an objection, someone for some reason thought they were deserving and it's important to acknowledge the teams that received the award, because they obviously were deserving.

So if clapping politely is really your most gracious form of recognizing the team's accomplishments, then we (if you don't mind me saying) encourage you to do so. Just make sure those you are mentoring join you, and encourage them to do so.

[popnbrown]

Wanted to make this two posts. Since they're two different points:

Akash:
I'm a little surprised at this as well. While I see where you are coming from, using the same logic. You could say that some of these students may not participate in building the robot or driving it, so should they go up for the finalist and other awards?

Going by the same point as the original points, we're here not ONLY to be proud of our team and give respect and awards where they DESERVE to go. But we're here to show that sense of gracious professionalism. No matter how many kids you have, you are a team. Like that quote, you win and you lose as a team.

Although, I think as mentors, we all recognize which students are actually deserving and it's important for US to make sure those students are recognized within the team, but when you're outside, it's important to convey the message that you are a team.

It kind of goes back to gracious professionalism, but this time within your team. Not only are we here working as different teams for a better society, but we're working as individuals within a team to create a better community in turn creating a better society.

Also, I believe that the student recognition was an important thing, and hence, why the Dean's List was established, other than that and the WFFA. I believe all other awards are completely team awards.


-That was a lot of stuff, I can spew for days, but you get my point.