Not to Be a Total Stick in the Mud

[Astrokid248]

Originally Posted by rsisk

Another Problem with shouting "robot" and also loud cheering in the pit is that it interfers with teams being interviewed by the judges.

Oh, I am so glad you mentioned this. Last year I was talking to judges about 60% of the time I was in the pits, and teams would plow through screaming ROBOT with no regard for what they were interrupting. This meant that I had to repeat things and get uncomfortably close to the judges just to explain parts of our robot. This is especially difficult for teams like Gatorzillas, who have a pit that's not conducive to quickly shuffling judges in as a robot comes plowing through.

As others have said, our policy is to send whichever driver is holding the OI ahead of everyone else to politely clear the way, with the other driver pulling the robot behind. Admittedly, when I took point, I'd mix it up by throwing in sarcasm, but I wouldn't advise that particular method, especially around anyone on a Segway.

From one BEST/FIRST vet to the rest of you, what things that are common place in BEST competitions would you rather not see at a FIRST regional? I think it would be good to compile a specific list.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Astrokid248

From one BEST/FIRST vet to the rest of you, what things that are common place in BEST competitions would you rather not see at a FIRST regional? I think it would be good to compile a specific list.

This may not be the thread to do this in. It might be good to start a separate thread.

I will add a couple of thoughts here:

1. Many teams treat the FRC pits like they treat the Display halls - using those for social gatherings. In LASA, we treat both competitions the same:
- enjoy the competition/check out the Displays and Pits but you have jobs to do and don't shirk those
- don't cluster, gather, block, bottleneck
because
- you each have jobs to do
- don't hang around the Pit or Display
because
- you are interferring with the work that needs to be done
- for Display purposes, the presenters that maintain the Display are there to talk about the team and the community involvement to visitors, guests, VIPS, Judges, and the teams. They are not there as a magnet for their fellow team members.
- for the Pit purposes, the pit crew is busy maintaining the robot, the Pit, and making themselves available to talk with visitors, guests, VIPS, Judges, and other teams. They are not there as a magnet for their fellow team members.

Because of the nature of the Displays and their purpose, I think some of the FRC/BEST teams fail to completely grasp the importance of the purpose of the Pits and they overwhelm them with social clusters and bottlenecks.

2. This is a different discussion but it is an important one. BEST is student centric. FRC isn't. The programs both support and encourage STEM initiatives but their programs are very different. It takes a lot of time and effort to help new team members and parents understand and grasp the value of those differences each year. Some teams do that well. Some teams don't. The teams that grasp the value of the differences and work towards setting the bar of excellence in each - are the ones that we see garnering awards and recognition in FIRST and BEST and the other robotics programs as well.

One thing that I love about BEST is their approach to the Pits. They are not open to everyone. They are only available to those who have pit passes and to BEST folks which include Judges and invited VIPs. I like that and think FRC could benefit from something similar with designated times for the Pits to be open to the everyone.

One of the things that I despise about the BEST competitions at Regional level are the bands that are allowed in the stands to support the teams. Not all teams can afford to fund their bands or their cheerleaders travel and they can seriously impact the Spirit Award and other awards, in my opinion. The noise level is dangerous and ridiculous. It totally overwhelms to the work of the DJ who, 9 times out of 10, blasts the speakers to distortion to try to overpower the bands. It's insane.
---
In Texas, I think a lot of this has to do with how young and inexperienced so many of the FRC teams are. We should see huge strides in development in our regions in the next 3 to 4 years. That is the hope.

Jane

[Brandon Zalinsky]

Originally Posted by Nate Laverdure

Perhaps he's talking about using 29% of the volume of the pit, not the floor area. Perhaps also the 13 students are stacked vertically in pairs to use the full 10' height.

Also, the 2013 FRC game will be to see who can stack the most amount of freshmen in their pit. Stack Attack II?

[AllenGregoryIV]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

One thing that I love about BEST is their approach to the Pits. They are not open to everyone. They are only available to those who have pit passes and to BEST folks which include Judges and invited VIPs. I like that and think FRC could benefit from something similar with designated times for the Pits to be open to the everyone.

I think one of the most inspiring things about FRC competitions is seeing teams working on their robots. Removing that from the public's view would be detrimental to the program. Some outside observers don't always believe that the students are building these robots. FIRST does a very good job of keeping spectators safe and just the safety glasses requirement alone keeps some people out of the pit.

Teams are able to take their own view on how welcoming they want their pit. For example at Alamo team 4000 (a rookie team) had a pit that included cut outs for people to take photos with, they obviously didn't mind having people come by their pit. On the other hand (this is just my take) team 245's pit was less welcoming which is not a bad thing. Their students were diligently working most of the time and I don't think many spectators would have interrupted them. How you construct your pit and how you interact with it and manage it determines a lot.

[Koko Ed]

One thing I admit to is I screwed up on the queing design at the entrance and exit and caused quite a stir making people have to walk all the way around the field(it would have worked the same on the exit side but that wasn't as far a walk). Jess pointed out I could have made an alley at the entrance that would have eased that problem and then people wouldn't be compelled to dart underneath the bleachers to get food.
My apologies for the inconvenience it caused.

[Tylernol]

Every year we bring gray vests to our pit. If we see a team member standing around in the pit without doing anything, we put a vest on them and send them around to help other teams. It keeps our pit from getting crowded because our rookies learn really fast not to stand around doing nothing . And having people going around trying to help all time isn't too bad either.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by AllenGregoryIV

I think one of the most inspiring things about FRC competitions is seeing teams working on their robots. Removing that from the public's view would be detrimental to the program. Some outside observers don't always believe that the students are building these robots. FIRST does a very good job of keeping spectators safe and just the safety glasses requirement alone keeps some people out of the pit.

Teams are able to take their own view on how welcoming they want their pit. For example at Alamo team 4000 (a rookie team) had a pit that included cut outs for people to take photos with, they obviously didn't mind having people come by their pit. On the other hand (this is just my take) team 245's pit was less welcoming which is not a bad thing. Their students were diligently working most of the time and I don't think many spectators would have interrupted them. How you construct your pit and how you interact with it and manage it determines a lot.

I absolutely agree with everything you have said. What I don't feel is necessary, is having large groups forming and blocking the robot access to and from the field and making it difficult for the Judges and VIPS and the teams that are working.

Jane

[Koko Ed]

Another thing I would like to point out at events. When you have a question to ask about a certain point of the event you should make sure to ask the right personnel the question so you can get the proper answer that you seek.
All game rule related questions should be asked of the referee (particularly the head referee).
Any technical questions you have about the robot should be brought to the FTA's attention.
Safety Issues should be brought to the attention of the Safety Advisors who are dressed in dark green shirts.
Pit issues should be brought to the Pit Adman table that is usually located in the center of the curtain on the opposite side from the playing field.
Any Inspection questions should be taken to the Inspectors (they have the bright yellow baseball caps)
Any controls questions should be brought to the attention of the Controls System Advisor (the CSA will have a bright orange baseball cap).
Just because someone is wearing a volunteer shirt does not mean that they will have the answers that you seek and worse yet they could end up giving you the wrong answer which could cause you and your team valuable lost time and headaches that you do not need.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

I absolutely agree with everything you have said. What I don't feel is necessary, is having large groups forming and blocking the robot access to and from the field and making it difficult for the Judges and VIPS and the teams that are working.

Jane

This was a massive problem in Montreal as teams had to cross where the public went to and from the stands, the coat check (a very nice feature indeed) and the FLL event. It didn't help that people going by would be enthralled by the lights and excitement of the event and stop in the middle of the que path to watch. Most people at the event had never seen a FIRST event before so it was quite a challenge to keep the event moving a everyone safe and away from the playing field area ( I must have made a few hundred "saves" over the weekend playing goalie and blocking people from entering the playing field area. It made the que teams job much much harder that it had to be but I don't think there was any other way to run the path so we made the best of it).

[RoboMom]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

In my now 9 years of being on a drive team and moving robots to the field, the most effective way to clear a path is the following:

Send one drive team member ahead of the robot, not pulling it, an independent person. This person walks ahead of the robot, and politely asks anyone who may be in the way to please move out of the way momentarily for the robot to pass by. If they are facing away from the robot, a gentle tap on the shoulder followed by the same explanation does wonders.

Our team hasn't yelled robot in the 7 years I have been on it, and we don't need to. We move through the pits just fine without creating extra noise pollution. Teams should try it, you will be surprised how much easier it is to move to and from your pit.

-Brando

Based on this post, I sat down with the green shirts for a few minutes at breakfast first thing on Thurs, made this suggestion using Alan's title of 'vanguards" and asked them to spread the word.

I still heard "robot" throughout the 3 days, but it sure seemed like I heard it a lot less.

Thanks!

[Gray Adams]

Originally Posted by RoboMom

Based on this post, I sat down with the green shirts for a few minutes at breakfast first thing on Thurs, made this suggestion using Alan's title of 'vanguards" and asked them to spread the word.

I still heard "robot" throughout the 3 days, but it sure seemed like I heard it a lot less.

Thanks!

I only heard it a few times myself. When I went to visit the Sacramento regional, it was painful to hear everyone yelling robot (though the aisles did seem smaller and more prone to being blocked).