Courtesy during awards.

[one4robots]

I would like to add Team 2169, King-Tec, as an exemplary example of a team that celebrates the awards of others. Recently my team won the GM Industrial Design Award at the Lake Superior regional, and on our way down to receive the award, members of King-Tec on the aisle were high-fiving us and all of their members were cheering as if they had won the award themselves.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi

And yes I brought up website and animation specifically because I do think that only a few work on these things and deserve to be recognized in front of their peers. If you want to continue to argue about opinion, PM me.

I'd prefer to talk about facts -- such as the fact that a lot of good team web sites have content contributed by many team members. It's not just the web "coders" who are responsible for the award-winning sites.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by BigJ

I've never seen this happen (except for WFFA, but at the events I normallly frequent, WI, IL, and MN, the WFFA is awarded and congratulated by all other WFFA winners in attendance), but I could understand it for the last award of the night (WFFA or Chairman's). I've never seen a team not stream onto the field, maybe with a couple stragglers. I think waiting around unless you're around 5 or less people who were somehow much closer would be rude.

I've seen both, several times at regionals. (I'd say it's mildly inconsiderate, but nothing to be too concerned about.)

It's historically been more complicated at the Championship, because the field can be so difficult to access from the stands. At some point (by 2004 for sure), FIRST started asking teams to designate a few members to accept awards. (I don't know what procedure was used in St. Louis last year.)

[gyroscopeRaptor]

Originally Posted by Alan Anderson

I'd prefer to talk about facts -- such as the fact that a lot of good team web sites have content contributed by many team members. It's not just the web "coders" who are responsible for the award-winning sites.

Say a website has a photo gallery. All students are in the photos there. Each photo is then contributing to the content of the website which I believe is one of the evaluative criteria. Each person has contributed and should walk on stage.

[Gray Adams]

Originally Posted by gyroscopeRaptor

Say a website has a photo gallery. All students are in the photos there. Each photo is then contributing to the content of the website which I believe is one of the evaluative criteria. Each person has contributed and should walk on stage.

If you're trying to say that you believe all members should walk on the stage based on a technicality, you should probably rethink your position. I'm not saying that not every member should go up, but that's a really weak reason for taking this position.

[Big Ideas]

As for FAMILY members walking, I say yes. Here is my reasoning:

As a volunteer for various activities for many years I have observed that:

the volunteers give their expertise but the FAMILY gives their TIME.

If a Mentors child (Robot Orphan) feels invested in the team enough to celebrate with the team, they should.

This holds true for post season parties also. Teams should celebrate and thank the families also.

[robochick1319]

When I played sports as a child, my father would always say, "You play as a team, you win as a team, you lose as a team."

Therefore, I do not think there is anything wrong with letting entire teams go up (even parents). Whoever wants to go up to accept the award should go and teams can use their best judgment. And if a team is oblivious to a faux pas that others find annoying, other teams in the audience should be GRACIOUS (that is what the term means, after all).

Should the entire team go up for website? Of course! The entire team would go up if they won the regional or if they won an imagery award. It is a motto for my team: We win and lose as a team. No matter what, we are all together.

Why is this even a big issue anyway? Aren't there more pressing issues for FIRST fans to address? Like blatant safety violations, overcrowding of venues and inconsistencies between regionals?

[rcmolloy]

Paraphrasing a student, "Regardless of how many students actually worked on something or put effort into that part of the team, I do believe that each student should be able to walk and receive a high five because that will ultimately build the most confidence and let the student embrace the winning aspect much more."

[ttldomination]

Frankly, I don't quite care what people do during the award ceremonies as long as they do not hint a level of disrespect.

For example, during the Friday award ceremonies a couple of members and I sat in the pits and talked about the day, and the day to come. We didn't feel like standing in the crowd, and so instead of hanging around in the stands, we returned to the pits.

Another example is that on Saturday, during the closing awards, we sat in the stands and politely clapped for all of the awards. The only award I actually stood up for was the Chairman's Award, and that too wasn't because of the award, but because of the caliber with which 1311 had presented themselves.

Honestly, this is slightly ridiculous. I understand drawing a line on not disrespecting teams, more specifically, booing teams or not clapping for teams, etc. But to dictate how I choose to show my support and/or appreciation for a team seems...incorrect.

- Sunny G.

[popnbrown]

Well, Sunny, the original point was that we, as mentors (and I assume you are), are just that mentors. We're not only trying to promote STEM and Robots here at FIRST but we're promoting something bigger than that, which is GP and Coopertition.

While there's absolutely nothing we can to dictate how you choose to show your support, I think the point that should be driven home, is that unless you seriously seriously have an objection to who got the award and you really really need to consider your objection, it's your duty as a mentor to teach your students gracious professionalism. After all you're essentially a role model to them, whether you think it or not, they do look up to you.

Even if you have an objection, someone for some reason thought they were deserving and it's important to acknowledge the teams that received the award, because they obviously were deserving.

So if clapping politely is really your most gracious form of recognizing the team's accomplishments, then we (if you don't mind me saying) encourage you to do so. Just make sure those you are mentoring join you, and encourage them to do so.

[popnbrown]

Wanted to make this two posts. Since they're two different points:

Akash:
I'm a little surprised at this as well. While I see where you are coming from, using the same logic. You could say that some of these students may not participate in building the robot or driving it, so should they go up for the finalist and other awards?

Going by the same point as the original points, we're here not ONLY to be proud of our team and give respect and awards where they DESERVE to go. But we're here to show that sense of gracious professionalism. No matter how many kids you have, you are a team. Like that quote, you win and you lose as a team.

Although, I think as mentors, we all recognize which students are actually deserving and it's important for US to make sure those students are recognized within the team, but when you're outside, it's important to convey the message that you are a team.

It kind of goes back to gracious professionalism, but this time within your team. Not only are we here working as different teams for a better society, but we're working as individuals within a team to create a better community in turn creating a better society.

Also, I believe that the student recognition was an important thing, and hence, why the Dean's List was established, other than that and the WFFA. I believe all other awards are completely team awards.


-That was a lot of stuff, I can spew for days, but you get my point.

[ttldomination]

I am alumnus on the team, so perhaps my opinion is more of a hybrid than a true mentor.

Additionally, I agree with everything you have said.

My point, which has become less sharp, is that if a team isn't exactly the loudest in the bunch, it should not reflect on their respect for the team receiving the award, the award itself, and their level of GP.

However, if a team approaches disrespect, then that is unacceptable by nearly all standards.

- Sunny G.

[rcmolloy]

Originally Posted by popnbrown

Although, I think as mentors, we all recognize which students are actually deserving and it's important for US to make sure those students are recognized within the team.

I do believe that all students should be recognized if it were to be within the team or outside of the team. All members should be important regardless of their contribution. It really doesn't matter if a student did not do as much work as the next or none at all. They are there supporting the team and want success just as much as the rest even if they only participated in a small part or none of it at all.

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by popnbrown

Akash:
I'm a little surprised at this as well. While I see where you are coming from, using the same logic. You could say that some of these students may not participate in building the robot or driving it, so should they go up for the finalist and other awards?

No, actually, I would not say this. And I will repeat again that I was saying this for two specific awards- website and animation. I have also already said that if your team operates differently, then go for it-send up whoever you like. How you are interpreting what I wrote is not what I am saying about other awards. You also know the 80 person team I come from so I'm also not making a biased opinion on the matter.

(PS good luck in Midwest this weekend Sravan <3)

[Taylor]

We Midwesterners are not complicated folk. Slop a few hogs, shuck some corn, build a robot or two - it's a simple life. But we do understand work ethic. And if somebody works harder than us and receives an award for it, you can bet yer britches we'll stand and applaud them because, dadgummit, they deserve it. And if they want to bring up the entire town, well, they earned it and it's their prerogative.

It's not Gracious Professionalism, it's not Hoosier Hospitality, it's just the right thing to do.