Awards and How they Are Chosen

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Cory,
A real answer lies in the fact that some awards are judged off site prior to the event. So those awards are not in the control of the judges. Some teams do not apply for specific awards like Dean's List, Chairman's and Woodie Flowers although I don't know why. Rookies cannot win Chairman's but NASA sponsored teams have a minimum Chairman's requirement that goes along with their sponsorship. And obviously only rookies can get Rookie All Star, Inspiration and highest rookie seed so a regional with just a few rookies slants the odds a bit. The reality is we would like to send everyone home with some hardware, you deserve it.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

Some teams do not apply for specific awards like Dean's List, Chairman's and Woodie Flowers although I don't know why.

Al (and/or any one else with Judging experience) is it safe to assume that these awards are decided more or less independently from others. I.E. Winning chairman's or Woodie Flowers would not reduce your chances of winning a technical award.

It seems that it is much easier for rookies to win more than two awards, it is fairly common for a team to win Highest Rookie seed as well as one of Rookie All Star or Rookie Inspiration. If you have those two it is certainly possible to take one of the other awards, I know for a fact some regionals will not give one of the other regular judged awards (Quality, Innovation in control etc) to aa rookie that won Rookie all star, however they are certainly elligible for others like Woodie Flowers, Website, Safety, Deans list etc.

To brag a little bit 3280 won 3 awards twice in 2010, Rookie inspiration, Highest Rookie seed and Woodie Flowers at WPI, and Rookie Allstar, Highest Rookie seed, and Safety in Boston.

[topgun]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

To brag a little bit 3280 won 3 awards twice in 2010, Rookie inspiration, Highest Rookie seed and Woodie Flowers at WPI, and Rookie Allstar, Highest Rookie seed, and Safety in Boston.

Personally, I think rookie awards should only be awarded at a team's first regional competition. If a first year team does two regionals their first year, can they really be considered a "rookie" at their second regional? At their second regional they have as much experience as a second year team that participated in only one regional their first year. They are no longer "rookies" in their experience level and shouldn't be considered at the same level as a team that is competing in their very first regional.

[Wendy Holladay]

Robomom,

thanks so much for posting your power point. It will help me in working with my team, especially new members and parents.

1 point and 1 question for anyone out there

1. We are 3 time RCA winners at the Bayou (thanks to all so much). We feel that the key to our repeats, is continuing to innovate while maintaining our current commitments. We continue to ask, how can we do more, how can we improve, what aren't we doing that we could be. And yes we are stretched but our students seem to always be up for more and that's what is all about. We also found the sessions at Championships given by past International winners to be very helpful. (if you are lucky enough to attend)

2. Having said that, can someone give me any insight into the judging for Engineering Inspiration? Some say it's runner up RCA but if you read what FIRST posts, it is not. Do the EI judges see the RCA write ups or is all the info gained by floor interviews?

[ebarker]

Wendy,

There are a lot of ways to go as a team. Figuring out what you want to do and how to get there. It's all fun.
What we did is here and here

EI - I don't like the RCA runner up answer. I've never totally figured it out but as best I can tell it goes to teams that have done a great job mentoring/teaching especially to FTC/FLL teams, but that is a broad generalization and I'm sure the mileage varies as you go around the country.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

topgun,
What about a team that learns so much from their first event that are near perfect at the second. Woodie and Chairman's (and off site judging) only can submit for one regional.

[topgun]

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz

topgun,
What about a team that learns so much from their first event that are near perfect at the second. Woodie and Chairman's (and off site judging) only can submit for one regional.

Not an issue. My point is that rookie awards should only be awarded to teams competing at their first regional competition. After your first regional competition you should no longer be considered for rookie awards, even if it is still your first year of competition.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

Topgun,
I do not tell rookies they are no longer rookies until they have competed for their last time that season. That could be at their first and only event or at Champs.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by topgun

Not an issue. My point is that rookie awards should only be awarded to teams competing at their first regional competition. After your first regional competition you should no longer be considered for rookie awards, even if it is still your first year of competition.

So even after being alive for 1 day, is a baby no longer a baby?

[Wendy Holladay]

Originally Posted by ebarker

Wendy,

There are a lot of ways to go as a team. Figuring out what you want to do and how to get there. It's all fun.
What we did is here and here

ed

what an amazing team and fantastic accomplishments with a great website. wow, hope to meet you in st. louis

[Grim Tuesday]

Every time I read a winning Chairmans award submission, I go "Wow, those guys really deserve it". 9 FRC TEAMS IN ONE YEAR!?

[dtengineering]

The links to Kevin's post on the FIRSTWA site and Jenny's powerpoint are great and reflect both what I have observed as a mentor and as a judge.

When I mentored 1346 we had a business and communications sub team who were skilled in promoting our team and machine and armed with brochures on the robot, firm handshakes and friendly smiles. We made sure (as much as possible) that there were always two members from the communications team in the pit and that they always knew where to find the programming, build and drive team leaders on short notice (if they weren't already in the pit area). One would talk to the judges while the other would offer to round up our "technical experts" to answer detailed questions. It seemed to work pretty well. Where appropriate we would also have "props" to demonstrate a particular aspect of our design. Our first award (Creativity) cited our use of wood to build our robot's arm. We brought our prototype arm along with us, set it on blocks on the floor of our pit area, and invited the judges to stand on it... together.... and bounce up and down. They remembered our machine and... when they saw it do a few other unique things on the field, sent us home a very happy team!

The success with that first wooden arm led our team to another trait that I believe helped us to win awards... we built with wood. It wasn't so important that we were building with wood, but we were doing something different... and we were doing a nice job of it. Our use of wood was cited in almost all of our technical awards. I was amazed last year (my first as a judge) to meet some of the judges who had been doing it for a few years and have them remark, "Oh... you're from the team that always uses wood! We love your machines... they always stand out. The hockey sticks were great!" I knew we had a minor reputation with some of the other teams for this, but I had no idea that we actually had built up a reputation with the judges! If you've got something good that makes your team stand out... stick with it!

One thing I should add is to point out that judges have a pretty good set of ears and eyes at the competitions. The tech inspector, pit administrator or other volunteer you talk to on Thursday might just be wearing a blue shirt on Friday and Saturday. The referee that you talk to on Friday morning might just be having a meal with a judge later in the day. There is a very good chance that the judges will hear about something awesome your team has done even if there isn't a "blue shirt" around at the time you do it. All the volunteers like to talk about the great things that teams and students do at events... the judges can't help but overhear these positive stories.

Finally, I'll add credit where credit is due... we didn't figure all this out ourselves. We went and talked to teams that were winning lots of awards, we watched what they were doing and tried to model ourselves after them. My personal thanks are extended to 1241, 188, 1114, 488, and 360 amongst others for setting a great example for us... we never got to be quite as good as them, but we sure had a good time trying.

Jason

[RoboMom]

Originally Posted by Wendy Holladay

Robomom,

thanks so much for posting your power point. It will help me in working with my team, especially new members and parents.

2. Having said that, can someone give me any insight into the judging for Engineering Inspiration? Some say it's runner up RCA but if you read what FIRST posts, it is not. Do the EI judges see the RCA write ups or is all the info gained by floor interviews?

Wendy, You are quite welcome.

RE: EI. Some people see it as a runner up to RCA because it offers a precious slot at CMP and the teams earning the EI award are often RCA material. But the criteria is different. I cannot answer what happens at every event. Unless the system has changed recently, it is supposed to be judged in the pits. But the RCA judges, although they are doing their own thing, also spend some time in the judges room. Whether they give input or not is up to the Judge Advisor.

[robochick1319]

Originally Posted by topgun

Personally, I think rookie awards should only be awarded at a team's first regional competition. If a first year team does two regionals their first year, can they really be considered a "rookie" at their second regional? At their second regional they have as much experience as a second year team that participated in only one regional their first year. They are no longer "rookies" in their experience level and shouldn't be considered at the same level as a team that is competing in their very first regional.

They were still rookies when they designed and built the robot. By your logic, they aren't rookies after their first match, right? That would be so difficult to manage and there would be no rookie award at the World Championship.

[Dan-o]

Great point by Al. Website, Safety, and Autodesk (if that still exists... I can't remember) are all judged separately. This is, of course in addition to the Regional Winner, Finalist, and Highest Rookie Seed that are determined by on-the-field performance. I've seen a team walk away once with 6 awards (including individual awards) where the judging panel at the regional gave them only one.