URGET RULE QUESTION: Bumper Zone

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

There is no rule that says you can't use your bumpers to your advantage. If you want to use them to get on top of the barrier, you can. Of course, anything used to damage the field is illegal, so don't use them for that. If they try to tech foul you for 'gaining advantage' from your bumpers, ask them under what rule they are giving it to you under. If they have any doubt in the legality of the bumpers, they should make you comply, not modify the rules to allow potentially illegal bumpers.

The issue isn't the field; it's what might happen to another robot if they hit it when the bumpers are high. Since I'm one of the inspectors that was involved in the conversation with the refs, I think I can explain.

The bumper rules call for 2-10 inches on a flat floor; this includes sitting on the ramps. During transition (over the bumps, onto the ramp) we're allowed to have the bumpers not be totally within that zone, per a Q&A. The question is what happens when they are travelling on the flat floor (not in transition).

We started trying to figure out if that would be a violation. It's not; there appears to be no penalty for a robot with bumpers out of the zone while on the field. However, there is the damage to other robots rule (G27). This is what they could get called on. There was some discussion about since they *know* their bumpers could hit another robot to high, any contact would be willful. I don't believe that's where we ended up.

Bottom line: you passed inspection, and we warned you about possible penalties. If you want further explanation you need to talk to the head ref; it's now out of the inspectors' hands.

btw, the "ruling" you got was from inspectors. We were all wearing the yellow hats, and not striped shirts.....

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

However, there is the damage to other robots rule (G27). This is what they could get called on. There was some discussion about since they *know* their bumpers could hit another robot to high, any contact would be willful. I don't believe that's where we ended up.

Bottom line: you passed inspection, and we warned you about possible penalties. If you want further explanation you need to talk to the head ref; it's now out of the inspectors' hands.

Just so everyone's on the same page:

[G27]
Deliberate or damaging contact with an opponent Robot on or inside its Frame Perimeter is not allowed.
Violation: Technical-Foul and potential Yellow Card

(The damage rule is also found in [G26], strategies aimed at damage.)

I read that as, if it's a high hit, no penalty unless it's either deliberate or damaging, and it makes it to or into the Frame Perimeter. You hit the bumpers at all, especially on the outside, all bets are off as to whether deliberate can be called; it's very possible to make the case that you didn't intend to, especially with the wide bumper zone this year and the potential ramifications of hitting a high bumper with a low bumper or vice versa. That just leaves damaging--and I hope that people actually build their robots to take a hit these days (back in my day... well, let's just say that bumpers were optional or non-existent until after I graduated high school, and leave it at that). That's the ref's nightmare right there--you have to be reasonably certain that it's deliberate contact to or inside the frame perimeter before you call that foul.

But, if an opposing robot decides to try to force the issue by hitting while this design is in acceleration, then that robot now has to deal with the risks of [G27], not because of the robot design currently under discussion, but because they're trying to force a foul and possibly committing one in the process...

[Jaxom]

Originally Posted by EricH

Just so everyone's on the same page:
(The damage rule is also found in [G26], strategies aimed at damage.)

I read that as, if it's a high hit, no penalty unless it's either deliberate or damaging, and it makes it to or into the Frame Perimeter. You hit the bumpers at all, especially on the outside, all bets are off as to whether deliberate can be called; it's very possible to make the case that you didn't intend to, especially with the wide bumper zone this year and the potential ramifications of hitting a high bumper with a low bumper or vice versa. That just leaves damaging--and I hope that people actually build their robots to take a hit these days (back in my day... well, let's just say that bumpers were optional or non-existent until after I graduated high school, and leave it at that). That's the ref's nightmare right there--you have to be reasonably certain that it's deliberate contact to or inside the frame perimeter before you call that foul.

A potential issue is that since their bumpers are so high in this configuration it'd be way to easy for them to go over the top of the other robot's bumpers, even if there's a bit of contact between the bumpers. So I don't think "...hit at all...." necessarily would prevent a penalty. And since it's deliberate OR damaging, deliberate isn't necessary. How much breakage is necessary to get to "damage" isn't something I know anything about; no zebra training for me.

Hopefully there won't be any issues; they won't run into someone with raised bumpers and the whole discussion will be moot. The inspectors were concerned that we didn't let them go through without full knowledge of what could happen, so if they choose to make some change to help mitigate the situation they can. We did that; I hope everyone concerned thinks we did it right. We certainly tried; we had a bunch of discussion before we ever talked to the refs. This wasn't something that we just kind of breezed into.

But again, the bottom line -- you guys should probably go stand in the question box & get a clear understanding, from the head ref, of the refs' position on this. They're the ones who's position matters at this point.

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by Jaxom

The issue isn't the field; it's what might happen to another robot if they hit it when the bumpers are high. Since I'm one of the inspectors that was involved in the conversation with the refs, I think I can explain.

The bumper rules call for 2-10 inches on a flat floor; this includes sitting on the ramps. During transition (over the bumps, onto the ramp) we're allowed to have the bumpers not be totally within that zone, per a Q&A. The question is what happens when they are travelling on the flat floor (not in transition).

We started trying to figure out if that would be a violation. It's not; there appears to be no penalty for a robot with bumpers out of the zone while on the field. However, there is the damage to other robots rule (G27). This is what they could get called on. There was some discussion about since they *know* their bumpers could hit another robot to high, any contact would be willful. I don't believe that's where we ended up.

Bottom line: you passed inspection, and we warned you about possible penalties. If you want further explanation you need to talk to the head ref; it's now out of the inspectors' hands.

btw, the "ruling" you got was from inspectors. We were all wearing the yellow hats, and not striped shirts.....

Thanks for clarifying, I didn't understand the issue fully. Highlighterheads are the best!