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Unread 25-03-2012, 11:05
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Re: Elitist Teams

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Originally Posted by rcmolloy View Post
I'm fairly sure that your team can gather up the students, mentors, and resources and make yourself a superpower in a few short years. When it comes down to it, you really need to strive for excellence and always keep making modifications to your robot. That does come from the drive and excellence within the team though so inspiration and motivation will have to be great.
I know that, this team is my heart and soul, I made the remark because of a possible (and in my opinion likely) consolidation between our school and 66's.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmolloy View Post
This would have been one of the worst decisions. A great way to piss off a potential alliance captain selecting you would be to drop the controls mid match and give up. Just even the thought is slightly disturbing. I'd personally be making sure that I wouldn't lose the match, and you should be doing the same.
Where's the GP man? At what point do you realize FIRST is not about winning, it's "For Inspirations and Recognition of Science and Technology." Stop skipping Dean's Saturday morning sermon and understand his intentions! I love the competition aspect, but it's gotta have it's limits.
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Unread 25-03-2012, 11:18
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Re: Elitist Teams

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Originally Posted by 470-RBTX View Post
Where's the GP man? At what point do you realize FIRST is not about winning, it's "For Inspirations and Recognition of Science and Technology." Stop skipping Dean's Saturday morning sermon and understand his intentions! I love the competition aspect, but it's gotta have it's limits.
Love before Money
Gracious Professionalism before Victory!
I do have a lot of gracious professionalism, that's something I'm not really worried about losing. One thing, however, is that I am highly, highly competitive when it comes to FIRST. There are no limits to competition unless they are negative towards other teams. Elites love to win and they fuel the inspiration for other teams and students to become better teams on the robot side of the spectrum. So even though you had a bad run in with this team, give them a second chance. I'm sure they would love to play with you guys again.
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Unread 25-03-2012, 11:56
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Re: Elitist Teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmolloy View Post
I do have a lot of gracious professionalism, that's something I'm not really worried about losing. One thing, however, is that I am highly, highly competitive when it comes to FIRST. There are no limits to competition unless they are negative towards other teams. Elites love to win and they fuel the inspiration for other teams and students to become better teams on the robot side of the spectrum. So even though you had a bad run in with this team, give them a second chance. I'm sure they would love to play with you guys again.
In other words, the team should turn the other cheek or, in this case, let their robot get rammed from the other side?

Jane
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Unread 26-03-2012, 16:02
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Re: Elitist Teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by rcmolloy View Post
So even though you had a bad run in with this team, give them a second chance. I'm sure they would love to play with you guys again.
I'm a rookie on 470 but I've been on another team before. I've experience this with the same team and have seen them do it to other teams as well. They don't deserve a second chance, they deserve to be banned from FIRST or otherwise chastised for their blatant disregard of gracious professionalism.
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Unread 26-03-2012, 16:09
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Re: Elitist Teams

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Originally Posted by hounvs View Post
I'm a rookie on 470 but I've been on another team before. I've experience this with the same team and have seen them do it to other teams as well. They don't deserve a second chance, they deserve to be banned from FIRST or otherwise chastised for their blatant disregard of gracious professionalism.
You think a Championship Chairman's winning team should be banned from FIRST?

I suggest you re-evaluate your position, as it is thoroughly untenable.
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Unread 26-03-2012, 16:28
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Re: Elitist Teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by hounvs View Post
I'm a rookie on 470 but I've been on another team before. I've experience this with the same team and have seen them do it to other teams as well. They don't deserve a second chance, they deserve to be banned from FIRST or otherwise chastised for their blatant disregard of gracious professionalism.
And you suggesting they be banned fits your definition of Gracious Professionalism? Did you not read any of this thread? Adam has apologized and explained his position in every way possible barring another language, and you still feel the need to talk trash about them?
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Unread 26-03-2012, 17:42
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Re: Elitist Teams

While the OP was pointing out a single instance involving the HOT team, we can not and should not single them out. I've been around FIRST for a while now and these types of actions are not limited to the so called "Elitist" teams. Every team is out to win, every team wants to show off what they built, and every team has their moments of weakness. I've had a past life as a drive coach, so I'm well aware of what goes on during strategy development, on field actions, and the potential fallout of when things don't go as you want. Some times you see a matchup and want the alliance to know this is what has to be done to win, some times the matchup allows for a variety of options. Every match is different and everybody's willingness to go along with the set strategy may not always be equal. Having a solid strategy may sometimes come off as "we are telling you what to do," but in reality, they are just looking out for what's best for the alliance.

For those that have claimed that HOT is solely about winning and doesn't care about anything or anyone else, hopefully you will someday change your mind. I've heard this claim before, and I've been quick to try and diffuse that notion. Over the years I have worked with and built relationships many HOT team alumni. I've never met a group of people more passionate about FIRST and all that it stands for. Whether helping get new teams off the ground or joining a struggling veteran, people that have gone through the system that HOT has developed have proven to be extremely knowledgeable and helpful in all situations.

My team has unfortunately been elimated by HOT twice this year, first in the finals at Waterford, and most recently in the quarterfinals at Northville. There aren't any hard feelings, infact laughs and congratulatory words were shared by both in each instance. If nothing else, these experiences serve as an inspiration to keep improving.
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Last edited by Mullen : 26-03-2012 at 18:03.
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Unread 26-03-2012, 16:31
Akash Rastogi Akash Rastogi is offline
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Re: Elitist Teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by hounvs View Post
I'm a rookie on 470 but I've been on another team before. I've experience this with the same team and have seen them do it to other teams as well. They don't deserve a second chance, they deserve to be banned from FIRST or otherwise chastised for their blatant disregard of gracious professionalism.
I didn't post anything in this thread because I've never had issues with elite teams, but dude you are out of line.

Adam's apology and responses in this thread have been amazing yet you turn around and spit this right back. Think before you post up again and actually read what he has to say. Don't just be mad and call it a day.

To the OP- thanks for this discussion
Adam- thanks for your extremely well thought out and worded responses, they were actually inspirational.
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Unread 26-03-2012, 16:38
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Re: Elitist Teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post
Adam- thanks for your extremely well thought out and worded responses, they were actually inspirational.
I agree. Even though my earlier comments were critical but (hopefully) constructive, Adam took them and stated that his intention was to continuously improve... an admirable goal all around!
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Unread 26-03-2012, 16:58
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Re: Elitist Teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akash Rastogi View Post
I didn't post anything in this thread because I've never had issues with elite teams, but dude you are out of line.

Adam's apology and responses in this thread have been amazing yet you turn around and spit this right back. Think before you post up again and actually read what he has to say. Don't just be mad and call it a day.

To the OP- thanks for this discussion
Adam- thanks for your extremely well thought out and worded responses, they were actually inspirational.
Quote:
Originally Posted by P.J. View Post
And you suggesting they be banned fits your definition of Gracious Professionalism? Did you not read any of this thread? Adam has apologized and explained his position in every way possible barring another language, and you still feel the need to talk trash about them?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cory View Post
You think a Championship Chairman's winning team should be banned from FIRST?

I suggest you re-evaluate your position, as it is thoroughly untenable.

So, a little off-topic, but something I want to address anyways:

The kid said they were a rookie. Cut them some slack. Instead of publicly shaming them, send them a message that isn't so harsh and explain to them why you think their post was uncalled for.

I'd hate to see someone be shunned and turned off to CD because they stuck their foot in their mouth (because then I'd be half the person I am now... the only reason I kept coming back is cause I'm stubborn).

EDIT: It has been brought to my attention that they have been on another team. Although they should know better, there are better ways to show them the error in their ways. I've said some dumb things before on this forum, some that I have been severely scolded for and other that have been handled in a less harsh manner. I know which ones I had grown more from, with clear understanding where I went wrong and why I should think differently.


****

HOT/Adam, very graceful replies. I hope that I one day can take criticism as gracefully as you.

Last edited by Katie_UPS : 26-03-2012 at 17:14.
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Unread 26-03-2012, 17:10
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Re: Elitist Teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie_UPS View Post
So, a little off-topic, but something I want to address anyways:

The kid said they were a rookie. Cut them some slack. Instead of publicly shaming them, send them a message that isn't so harsh and explain to them why you think their post was uncalled for.

I'd hate to see someone be shunned and turned off to CD because they stuck their foot in their mouth (because then I'd be half the person I am now... the only reason I kept coming back is cause I'm stubborn).


****

HOT/Adam, very graceful replies. I hope that I one day can take criticism as gracefully as you.
In all fairness he said he was a rookie on 470 but had been on another team before so rightfully should know better.
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Unread 26-03-2012, 17:12
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Re: Elitist Teams

Ayup, missed that part.

None the less, five people shaming someone doesn't solve the problem.

Back to the previous discussion...
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Unread 26-03-2012, 17:27
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Re: Elitist Teams

Quote:
EDIT: It has been brought to my attention that they have been on another team. Although they should know better, there are better ways to show them the error in their ways. I've said some dumb things before on this forum, some that I have been severely scolded for and other that have been handled in a less harsh manner. I know which ones I had grown more from, with clear understanding where I went wrong and why I should think differently.
Have to agree with Katie. While his statement may have been with poor judgement, the response could have been a little bit softer. I too have said some ill-advised things on CD, and thankfully they were taken likely and I was given a second chance. It would be good to apply that here as well.

Quote:
The same goes for pretty much every other team we worked with over the weekend (including 16 Bomb Squad, and 2949 Pwnage).
Glad to hear this, and thank you. Having been a member of our drive team before, I know how important it is to not only develop a good strategy for the coming match, but make sure all the teams are connected and agree on that strategy.

I can personally say that after attending the Midwest Regional for the last 3 years, I have encountered numerous "powerhouse" teams (16, 71, 111, 118, 148, 1625, 1732). All of these teams, while driven to win with what they think are their best strategies to win, are very welcoming and great to work with. They all have a lot of experience, and help to show why their strategy is the best one to win with, not just shove it down your throat. I have the up-most respect for these teams and they are some of the most gracious teams I have ever encountered.

Will you occasionally run into some one who thinks they know what's best and you don't? sure. Does that mean you should hate their team forever? Definitely not.

I suppose that's just my $0.02

-Nick
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Unread 26-03-2012, 18:12
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Re: Elitist Teams

There are some teams who act as if they are "better" than others, but if you look closely at it, they generally are. If I were in some great coincidence allianced with 67 in a match, I'd listen to them. They have much more experience and knowledge than I do, and if I listen to them, I'll learn a thing or two.

Now when I say these teams act "better" than others, I don't mean they are ignorant and snotty, as others have referred to them as. I mean they act like they know what they're doing, like the finals fields aren't new to them. These teams have much more experience than the average team, and in some cases, may know a better strategy than the average teams. As an average team, we (my team included) should not only look up to these teams, but learn from everything they tell us.

It's like talking with a college professor. The professor obviously knows more than you do, so instead of calling him an elitist, and saying he/she thinks he/she is better than you, try and take the opportunity to learn as much as you can from him/her.

These teams aren't elitists, but they sure are elite.
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Unread 26-03-2012, 18:01
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Re: Elitist Teams

Quote:
Originally Posted by hounvs View Post
I'm a rookie on 470 but I've been on another team before. I've experience this with the same team and have seen them do it to other teams as well. They don't deserve a second chance, they deserve to be banned from FIRST or otherwise chastised for their blatant disregard of gracious professionalism.

Obviously, we have plenty of issues ourselves, and NO ONE should ever be banned from FIRST. We live, we grow, teach and learn. Participation is a requirement for that to happen.

I will say, I'm proud of Joel for his effort to start the discussion as a generic topic. A couple years ago, it would have been easy for him to jump on a keyboard and fly off the handle. We all get a bit hot under the collar at times, especially in the heat of competition. (and sometimes during the build.) Hopefully we learn to cool off and look at situations objectively, before we do or say something to aggravate them. From what I've read here, I'd say the result has largely been a healthy discussion.

Thank You Adam, for your comments as well! Indeed, as was stated earlier, a "Class Act". I for one, would love to pick your brain on a number of subjects. Hope we get a chance to talk at MSC. The Students aren't the only ones in this to learn.

Steve Martin
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