The 1 bin confusion.....

[Johca_Gaorl]

Originally posted by MikeWherley
there is a reason that FIRST is using the stack measuring device ...
Then what would you do if you have a collection of bins after the wall is pushed over and you have multiple bins in a pyramed scheme ... then how do you how many bins would be in the stack? According to your idea, what would you do if you had 4 bins, 2 stacked normally and 1 bin standing tall with the final bin on top of both the 2 high and 1 high stacks.. Would you count the stack height as 2 or 3?

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by that, I don't see how that stack is possible.... With my idea, if it's a pyramid, say a base of 4 and 2 stacked on top, it would be 3 high, and the other three would be scoring bins.

[George1902]

if you had a pyramid style stack with 4 bins on the bottom in a rectangular formation and 2 more stacked up in the center where they meet, this would be the scoring break down:

first, the stack would be worth 4 SHU. the bins are not nestled, and therefore would reach into the 4th SHU.

second, how many bins are in this stack? well, there are 4 bins at the base, and 2 in the column. therefore all 6 of these bins would count for 0 points. why? well, it's been stated a few time in this thread that any bins in the highest stack are worth 0 points. it's obvious that the top 2 are in the stack, but what about the bottom 4? well, i think the refs would rule that each of the 4 are partly suporting the 2 bins on top. so all 6 of thses bins are worth 0.

soemthing to be aware of: we've seen that in some configurations 3 bins can be worth 4 SHU if unmeshed or a bin is on it's side... well, in this case, we see 6 bins worth only 4 because multiple bins are supporting another, and therefore must be considered as part of the stack.

[MissDaisyGirl]

am i missing something in the scoring?

i thought that the score was calculated by the stack height (based on the measuring stick) * bins not part of the stack.

what is this talk of it being based on the stack height (based on the measuring stick) * (total number of bins in zone - SHUs)?

i know this doesn't help, but my opinion on the main issue here would be that a bin on its side counts as 2 SHUs. but then again, if you just knock the wall over b4 anyone else does, you're almost guaranteed that one will fall that way, so maybe that shouldn't count...

help FIRST!

[Mike537Strategy]

Originally posted by MissDaisyGirl
i thought that the score was calculated by the stack height (based on the measuring stick) * bins not part of the stack.

what is this talk of it being based on the stack height (based on the measuring stick) * (total number of bins in zone - SHUs)?

This is what I asked earlier on. And the first part is DIRECTLY what it states in the rules. I think the rule is GM27 or somewhere around there...

[Rick]

OK LISTEN EVERYONE

end of the match ref takes his big measuring stick. goes to the tallest hieght stack of bins on your side. remembers the number. Now that ref counts the bins on the ground NOT in that stack. remembers that number. Then he multiplies those 2 numbers and adds 25 for each robot in your alliance on the hdpe. is that clear?! its not that hard people. your all reading way too much into this.

[Madison]

Originally posted by Ricksta121
OK LISTEN EVERYONE

end of the match ref takes his big measuring stick. goes to the tallest hieght stack of bins on your side. remembers the number. Now that ref counts the bins on the ground NOT in that stack. remembers that number. Then he multiplies those 2 numbers and adds 25 for each robot in your alliance on the hdpe. is that clear?! its not that hard people. your all reading way too much into this.

There's clearly a question regarding the procedure that referees will use while scoring and an ambiguous explanation regarding what constitutes a stack, how non-nested stacks may be interpreted and how pyramids fit into all of this.

Just because you said so does not make it true. I think people have valid questions regarding many rules in this year's game. Your interpretation may or may not be the correct one. Don't be so presumptuous.

[Rick]

uhh...Nope I'm right

[Raul]

Ricksta,

I jusy want to hear what is your winning strategy that you arrived at by 2PM on Jan 4th.

[kevinw]

Originally posted by Raul
Ricksta,

I jusy want to hear what is your winning strategy that you arrived at by 2PM on Jan 4th.

Yes Ricksta, what is this great strategy, and why did it take you so long?

[FotoPlasma]

Just to take this thread a little farther off of its topic...

Ricksta121: How do you know it's a winning strategy? You haven't even had a scrimmage against anyone. What if it causes you to lose every single match?

[MBiddy]

I at first I though a bin on it's side would could as 2 since it's taller than the 1 SHU marker line on the ruler, but reading the Team Update at FIRST's website, it says the multiplier is measured in WHOLE stack units, so unless a bin on its side is taller than 2 nested stacked bins, I think it's only worth a multiplier of 1.

Also it says that fractional heights will be rounded down to the nearest SHU unit.

[Rick]

the way they are measured is on the stick. the stick goes like this:

/ \
|
=4
|
|
=3
|
|
=2
| \--------/
| | 1Shu |
=1 \____/


/ \
|
=4
|
|
=3
|
|
=2 \ -----\
| | 2 |
| | Shu|
=1 /-----/

as you can see by my crude drawing note that any bin upright will always count as one since there is no zero on the meter. when tipped a certain way it will round down to count for 2. that should clear anything up.

Pyramids should work like this:
all bins supporting the largest stack will count zero towards base score. but the pryamid ges measured and it doesn't matter how many you use.

and about my strategy. if anyone has allied with us last year they know im Mr. Strategy. and i cant go around telling everyone the winning strategy cause then everyone would do it. so keep thinking everyone.

[sanddrag]

1 SHU = 14 3/4 inches. 1 bin in standard position is 15 3/4 high. So according to the SHU stick starting with 1, a bin would be above the 2 mark already.

Will someone clarify all of this really simply please?

[machenti]

By my understanding putting things on there sides doesn't help. The stack is rounded down. So if there was a satck of 1 and it was on its side it would lets say be 1.1 stack units. Round that down and you get 1. So a stack of 3 with a forth sideways would be 4.1 stack units and round that down, you get 4. Did I miss something in the rules?

-Ryan

[nwagers]

since when do measurements start at one? all the rulers in my house begin with 0. the way the rules(update) read all the tubs are counted down, so unless you can stack enough tubs on their sides to add a complete SHU it does nothing to your multiplier