Colson 101

[jwfoss]

Originally Posted by SuperNerd256

So on a standard 27x54 flat carpet field, what advantages will Colsons give over regular treaded wheel?

Everything is an engineering trade off in some way, wheel selection is no different. "Absolute Advantage" is subjective.

Pros that we've found for the Colson Performa wheels:
- Low Cost
- Never change tread
- Approximately match Roughtop on Carpet (un-grooved)
- Outperform on other surfaces (Plexi, HDPE, diamond plate)
- Some Shock Absorbing capability
- They "warm up" during a match (gearheads may find this interesting)
- COTS dead axle hubs available (this was previously the barrier to entry for most teams)

You can get CAD Models from the Colson Website. You may have to download the entire caster then save just the wheels, this is typically what we have done. I do have a model for the 4"x1.5" on my home computer if needed.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Josh Drake

Has anyone tried a Colson on a swerve module?

Team 228's 2010 Swerve Used 'Cut' Colsons, Team 148's 2008 swerve used Colsons, Along with 3928 (2012) and Team 40 (2011) as already mentioned.

Originally Posted by jwfoss

*snip*
- They "warm up" during a match (gearheads may find this interesting)
*snip*

In a simple pushing test in the pre-season (I sat on carpet, had the drive push against my feet for ~15 seconds) I found that the wheel temperature got to ~100-105* F depending on which drive wheel it was (30* increase from room temperature of ~70*). There was a noticeable improvement in performance immediately following this test, almost as if the drive had more 'bite' on the carpet.

[Jared Russell]

Is there a source for COTS live axle Colson hubs? Not that these are terrible difficult to make, just wondering.

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by Jared341

Is there a source for COTS live axle Colson hubs? Not that these are terrible difficult to make, just wondering.

No COTS source yet. I believe RC will be offering them in the future.

2415 has used colsons for the past 2 years as well. Last year we swapped to them after using custom treaded wheels and the increase in performance was noticeable. This year we strayed to pneumatic wheels to deal with the bump and were incredibly disappointed with the performance. We have just finished swapping to colsons for a weight savings of 2.5lbs and again the increase in performance is night and day. We will not be using any other wheels in the future.

[JakeD]

All my experience has been with the standard KOP wheels, as well as the andy mark Plaction wheels with both rough and wedge top. I've always found the wedge top to out preform on HDPE and other non carpeted materials but the rough top to maintain traction better on carpet. It seems to be relatively widely noticed that the Colson wheels out preform the rough top on HDPE and has similar performance on carpet but has anyone compared them to the wedge top?

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by JakeD

All my experience has been with the standard KOP wheels, as well as the andy mark Plaction wheels with both rough and wedge top. I've always found the wedge top to out preform on HDPE and other non carpeted materials but the rough top to maintain traction better on carpet. It seems to be relatively widely noticed that the Colson wheels out preform the rough top on HDPE and has similar performance on carpet but has anyone compared them to the wedge top?

Colsons stick much better than roughtop or wedgetop to anything other than carpet.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by JakeD

All my experience has been with the standard KOP wheels, as well as the andy mark Plaction wheels with both rough and wedge top. I've always found the wedge top to out preform on HDPE and other non carpeted materials but the rough top to maintain traction better on carpet. It seems to be relatively widely noticed that the Colson wheels out preform the rough top on HDPE and has similar performance on carpet but has anyone compared them to the wedge top?

Rougtop and Wedgetop are extremely similar because they are made from all the same materials (either nitrile or natural rubber). The geometry of the tread pattern does create slightly different performance characteristics, but compared to different wheel types (pneumatic, colson, etc) the differences are huge.

-Brando

[jwfoss]

If you are local and interested in checking out both the dead axle hub or a hex live axle plug, FRC2168 always has spares to show to other teams (and judges).

We've already competed at NYC, and will be at the CT regional in a couple days. Feel free to stop by.

There are also a bunch of pictures on our teams website and on my personal/robotics blog.

[Richard Wallace]

3620 used 8" Colson Performa wheels with the WCP hub this year. It required an outboard bearing adapter, but that was easy to make out of Delrin.

Look here for pictures.

[AlexH]

Robot Marketplace also sells colsons with a sprocket and bearing pressed into them. http://www.robotmarketplace.com/prod...it_wheels.html

[AdamHeard]

I've heard rumors and claims over the year over the actual numbers and how high they are (for traction), but have yet to see anyone do real testing and post.

Anyone done it?

[Rich Kressly]

If you like Colson, but don't want to bother with separate hub manufacturing or purchase, check out NPC wheels which have very similar characteristics and have hub included:
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/prod...lrin_hubs.html

1712 used NPC wheels in its drivetrain in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010. During those years the wheels performed very well on all kinds of surfaces, including those similar to what is being used this year, and in all kinds of configurations (4-wheel, 6-wheel, wide-body, long-body).

As pointed out you will expend a little weight here, but when I was in a decision-making position, I always thought it was weight well spent for a wheel that will last, get around, help you score, and stand up to playing aggressive defense when/if a game or strategy calls for it. I'm also sure there are plenty of places you could take some mass out of the wheels if you wanted/needed to as well.

And while we never grooved the NPC wheels to improve traction on a competition robot, I'm well aware of the success Brando and others have had with this technique and did like what I saw with some off-season lab testing several years back.

[sdcantrell56]

Originally Posted by Rich Kressly

If you like Colson, but don't want to bother with separate hub manufacturing or purchase, check out NPC wheels which have very similar characteristics and have hub included:
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/prod...lrin_hubs.html

1712 used NPC wheels in its drivetrain in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010. During those years the wheels performed very well on all kinds of surfaces, including those similar to what is being used this year, and in all kinds of configurations (4-wheel, 6-wheel, wide-body, long-body).

As pointed out you will expend a little weight here, but when I was in a decision-making position, I always thought it was weight well spent for a wheel that will last, get around, help you score, and stand up to playing aggressive defense when/if a game or strategy calls for it. I'm also sure there are plenty of places you could take some mass out of the wheels if you wanted/needed to as well.

And while we never grooved the NPC wheels to improve traction on a competition robot, I'm well aware of the success Brando and others have had with this technique and did like what I saw with some off-season lab testing several years back.

For what its worth, the NPC wheels are colson wheels just with a delrin hub inserted. If you dont have the machining resources theyre great; however, if you have access to a lathe it is much more economical to do a simple plug. This gives you the option of hex broaching as well so you dont have to deal with keyways.

[Lil' Lavery]

Originally Posted by Rich Kressly

1712 used NPC wheels in its drivetrain in 2006, 2007, 2008, and 2010. During those years the wheels performed very well on all kinds of surfaces, including those similar to what is being used this year, and in all kinds of configurations (4-wheel, 6-wheel, wide-body, long-body).

We used them on our shooter this year, as well. We opted for KoP wheels (then later two omnis on one side) for our drive train for weight and size constraints. We may change that in the future.

[Rich Kressly]

Originally Posted by sdcantrell56

For what its worth, the NPC wheels are colson wheels just with a delrin hub inserted. If you dont have the machining resources theyre great; however, if you have access to a lathe it is much more economical to do a simple plug. This gives you the option of hex broaching as well so you dont have to deal with keyways.

Agreed on the cost if you're into those manufacturing techniques.