2012 Greater Toronto Regional West

[Ravage457]

It was an awesome regional, two great alliances had an awesome finals

[lemiant]

Originally Posted by Karthik

I have a lot more to say about this amazing regional, but I wanted to address this comment directy.

I want to open this by saying I was really impressed by this regional as a whole and by 1114s performance. It was the most fun I've ever had watching a regional, I'm excited to hear what else you have to say .

In regards to my comments, I regret that I used such offensive language (and I have changed it), but the logic is not deserving of reprimand. I could never claim to have a better understanding of the decisions made by 1114 than you, but I believe that in absence of your reasoning, my assumptions were certainly solid.

Originally Posted by Karthik

We at 1114 never do anything "to screw" anyone, let alone our friends at Team 2056. We accepted Team 3161 because they have an amazing robot and were great partners for us. It's as simple as that.

If we look at your alliance in a vacuum, while 3161 is certainly a great partner, objectively 188 had a higher OPR, a better record of triple balancing, a higher combined HP/BP/TP and more wins as well as experience. Subjectively they seemed to be more effective at scoring under defense. With this in mind it seemed likely that 1114 accepted not necessarily to make the strongest alliance possible, but to ensure that their opposition would have a harder climb.
From what I can glean from recorded matches it seems this analysis is born out in the matches. In the quarter finals 188 outscored 3161 by 6 in Autonomous and 21 in Teleop.

Originally Posted by Karthik

Also, Team 1241 has a great robot, no one would be "stuck" with them.

While I respect team 1241, they were not the best alliance partner for 2056. Something you'd have a hard time disagreeing with, when 2056 stated it in the most meaningful way, by declining them.

[nikeairmancurry]

One thing I noticed about the F.1 match was that not only did the red alliance outscore the blue in teleop, but 1114 did most of it with lots of traffic. At one point 1114 was trying to move and gather balls with 4 other teams in their zone, while 2056 mainly left alone. This isn't meant to take anything away from what they did, but I think what 1114 did to keep that match close was by far amazing.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by lemiant

In regards to my comments, my language was probably overstated, but the logic is not deserving of reprimand.

The language was what myself and many others took issue with. It's not always what you say, but how you say it.

[Justin Montois]

Originally Posted by lemiant

...With this in mind it seemed likely that 1114 accepted not necessarily to make the strongest alliance possible, but to ensure that their opposition would have a harder climb.

......

So, according to your logic, ensuring that everyone else at the regional has a harder time winning somehow means 1114 did not make the strongest alliance?

Furthermore, If you saw any if the interaction during the elimination rounds between 1114 and 2056 off the field you would know that both teams wanted nothing but the best for the other. Those two have the strongest partnership in FIRST. There was no "screwing over" going on.

[LeelandS]

For years, people have questioned the legitimacy of 2056's winning streak. I've seen many people say that they've only remained undefeated because they always have the best partner at the regional backing them up (be it 1114 or another), and that can certainly be one of the reasons. But they've always built an outstanding robot to earn the right to have those partners.

Today, I think 2056 proved that they don't need the best partner at the regional to go the distance. No offense to 2200 or 4001, as they certainly proved to be great partners to OP Robotics, but 2056 was definitely in a league of their own amongst many of the Greater Toronto West Teams. They proved they don't need one of the Canadian powerhouses alongside them to take a regional. A lot of people are going to argue that they didn't deserve the win, because the opposing alliance wasn't necessarily at 100%. And that may be true. But the record books will forever show that 2056 won a regional without a powerhouse alongside them. In my humble opinion, 2056 has stepped out from the shadow of their recurring partners, 1114, and has reached the same level as the Simbots and, arguably, ascended even higher.

On another note, with the whole "1114 tried to screw 2056" thing, I know that 1114 will never build anything less than the best alliance they can. They wouldn't even consider an offer from a team if they didn't think they had a strong chance of winning the event with them, or they were backed into a corner into accepting (being ranked low and declining would mean no eliminations). 3161 came amazingly close to taking the #1 seed at Greater Toronto East, and it's no coincidence that they took it this time. They are one of the strongest Canadian teams out there right now. And though they may not be as strong as 1114 or 2056, I certainly wouldn't argue with 1114's decision to accept. Were 1114 to decline, 3161 would have certainly made 2056 their next choice. If they'd accepted, they would have still had a great chance of winning. If they'd declined, 3161 would get their pick of the next strongest team, and 1114 and 2056 would still be split, since 1114 wouldn't be able to pick 2056. 1114 made a smart move accepting 3161's offer. Declining would have been a poorly thought-out decision. And 1114 always thinks their moves through all the way.

[lemiant]

Originally Posted by Justin Montois

So, according to your logic, ensuring that everyone else at the regional has a harder time winning somehow means 1114 did not make the strongest alliance?

I was not making a judgement about 1114, I would also aim to ensure that my alliance had the best chance of winning. I was merely making the observation that in this instance 1114 was best served by taking an opportunity away from their strongest opposition.

Originally Posted by Justin Montois

Furthermore, If you saw any if the interaction during the elimination rounds between 1114 and 2056 off the field you would know that both teams wanted nothing but the best for the other. Those two have the strongest partnership in FIRST. There was no "screwing over" going on.

I am well aware of the bond shared by those teams, it is a partnership with a level of friendship and respect which the rest of us can only aim for. Despite this I also know that 1114 and 2056 do not leave anything on the field. They didn't "screw over" in a sense that they did something immoral, however they certainly did aim to get an upperhand in the competition.

[Team 3705]

Hello there! Great matches everyone. The final match was epic

Our team only did two regional events this year. GTR East and West, and they were alright...

I was hoping for us to be picked in the alliance selection, but it seemed like we did not make it...

Could some teams please state on why they did not consider us to be one of their alliance partners?

[Arjunonium]

I too am very confused about the picking process, one team in particular that helped us and one that we thought for sure was going to make alliance selections was team 1325. They had consistent hybrid shooting as well as amazing bridge traversal and driver skills, however they were not picked while others were picked without similar skills.
As a rookie is there something i am missing? Could someone clarify please?
Thanks

[EpicLegacy]

Originally Posted by Arjunonium

I too am very confused about the picking process, one team in particular that helped us and one that we thought for sure was going to make alliance selections was team 1325. They had consistent hybrid shooting as well as amazing bridge traversal and driver skills, however they were not picked while others were picked without similar skills.
As a rookie is there something i am missing? Could someone clarify please?
Thanks

Basically, it's not that 1325 was a "weak" team, it's more that the type of skills the alliance teams were looking for were not the skills they had to offer.

For 2056/4001/2200 I believe the thinking was that 2056 would be able to score fairly consistently throughout the match (as they did) and that the other 2 bots were able to play defense well as well as were small bots able to complete the triple balance which they pulled off in the finals to win them the first match. I didn't follow the other teams and selections as closely as I did 2056 otherwise I may have been able to offer more insight.

Just my $0.02

[EagleEngineer]

Originally Posted by mhat_ios

Is it just me, or did Karthik just do the most epic intro speech of all time for the finals?

It was pretty awesome.

-Michael

That was the best intro i've ever seen. He said it "The moment we've all been waiting for since 2007". Final match 1 was pretty epic, 1114 just got unlucky, it happens. Being in the san diego finals and losing by the bridge balance in match 1, i feel 1114's pain. Anyway both alliances did every well, and i would not be surprised to see these same teams on Einstein. Amazing regional, and congrats to 2056, 4001, 2200.

[Karthik]

Originally Posted by EagleEngineer

That was the best intro i've ever seen.

Dave Verbrugge has had some pretty awe inspiring ones over the years, he's definitely the master of the historic intro. Of my own, GTR 2010 is still my favourite.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2010on_f1m1

[Kaushal.K]

To address some of the issues I quickly read.

1) In semi finals match where #2 alliance (1241 & co) faced the #7 alliance (2056 & co), 1241 took a hard hit and our drop-down mechanism was stuck in the extended position. We were able to drive to block the opposing alliance (not in their lane) from getting onto the bridge WHILE not touching it, therefore no penalty/DQ.

2) In semi's matches 2 & 3, we had connection problems. I do not know the reasoning behind what caused the issue/what the exact issue was, but there was a problem.

3) Team 1114's robot "dying" in the 2nd Finals match occurred at the start of the Tele-Operated period, they were at the same alliance station as Team 1241 was at for Semi's match 3 against 2056.

I would like to thank & congratulate Teams 2056, 4001 and 2200 on their Regional Victory.

Teams 3161, 1114 and 2643 for putting on the most amazing Finals that I have seen since I began in FIRST in '07. It was truly a weekend I (and many others on my team) will never forget!

& Lastly congratulations to Team 1305 on their Engineering Inspiration award and to 907 and 771 for being our amazing alliance partners!

[nikeairmancurry]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Dave Verbrugge has had some pretty awe inspiring ones over the years, he's definitely the master of the historic intro. Of my own, GTR 2010 is still my favourite.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2010on_f1m1

The one that comes to mind is the 2008 Opening Ceremonies at the Great Lakes Regional, "The Perfect Storm" speech. He had this amazing story that contained the name or a part of the teams name (60+ teams there). He did it without any notes or cues, pure memory. To bad it wasn't recorded. Also his 2009 Einstein introduction history lesson was pretty darn good to.

[Jash_J]

Originally Posted by Karthik

Dave Verbrugge has had some pretty awe inspiring ones over the years, he's definitely the master of the historic intro. Of my own, GTR 2010 is still my favourite.

http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2010on_f1m1

Haha, I remember watching this back in 2010, my first year as a student of FIRST robotics and team 1241. I remember the stories you told, it inspired me everyday about how this program benefits so many people. I pass down the information you taught me to the juniors on our team. This was definetly one of your best intro's to the finals. Those are the moments we live for in FIRST.