2012 Mid-Atlantic Robotics FRC Region Championship

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by scottandme

I added another sheet to the google doc to calculate standings during/after the MAR champs. Does anyone know if the 5 point based spots for world champs can be declined/backfill? In the MAR bylaws it says that the 7 award based slots can only be given to the winner of that award (3x champ, 2x CA, 1x EI, 1x RAS), but nothing about the 5 next highest teams by points. It does mention that if a district winner also wins an award they would add a 6th point based qualifier. Seeing as 5 of the top 9 teams by points are already attending nationals, it would be a shame if those spots couldn't slide down.

Agreed. Even if the MAR rules don't do it automatically, if a team qualifies to St. Louis both through MAR due to ranking and outside of MAR, maybe they will voluntarily decline their MAR ranking spot, giving it to the next highest ranked team?

[Steven Donow]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Agreed. Even if the MAR rules don't do it automatically, if a team qualifies to St. Louis both through MAR due to ranking and outside of MAR, maybe they will voluntarily decline their MAR ranking spot, giving it to the next highest ranked team?

Part of me says they don't; I don't remember where I read it though. It wasn't explicitly saying that though, IIRC it said something along the likes of, "The 5 point-based spots cannot be passed on to other teams".

EDIT: Nevermind, my thought of that was from reading the part of the MAR by-laws about the 7 award winners...MAR Supplement says nothing about the 5 spots..just that they go to non-award winners...hopefully they'd pass it down the line.

[camtunkpa]

222 is almost ready....we have a couple things we are working on....hopefully they will be done in time.

[Deetman]

1712 received a call this morning inviting us to the MAR Championship, which means they've either processed through earlier declines or 2 additional teams have declined since 303 accepted.

We're working with FIRST to get everything finalized now, but 1712 is excited to be attending and is looking forward to a great competition.

[Dancin103]

Well 103 made the decision since January that we would not be going to state championship, so since we were 11th, that left a spot for one team.

[The Lucas]

Like 103, I speculate that 555 and 1143 (both registered for Worlds) may forgo MAR CMP on their way to CMP.

As for the issue of backfilling, I would recommend reading the 2012 EVENT ELIGIBILITY, REGISTRATION AND PAYMENT over the MAR Supplemental rules over the since they are more up to date (Feb 28 vs Jan 6).

Originally Posted by 2012 EVENT ELIGIBILITY, REGISTRATION AND PAYMENT

The 5 spots for the top ranked teams will be filled by starting at the top of the rankings and moving down as far as is necessary to fill the 5 spots with teams other than the 7 award winners.
The 7 award spots may not be filled by any team(s) other than the 7 award winners even if one of the 7 award winning teams chooses to decline their spot. The only exception is when a member of the winning alliance has already been awarded a slot by winning the MAR Region Championship Chairman’s, Engineering Inspiration, or Rookie All Star award. In this case, a team
will be added from the top ranked teams.

Originally Posted by FiM

*Note: To the extent any of the three teams on the winning alliance are already registered or qualify for a spot another way, the next available team in ranked order will be substituted in their place.

I don't think it is out of the question that MAR could extend the exception to backfill (next team based on pts) for the winning alliance is "already registered or qualify for a spot another way". This could be very important since I can see many plausible winning alliance combinations with 3 teams already registered for Worlds. I don't expect any backfilling for CA and/or EI if already registered teams 2590 or 3142 win them.

[Steven Donow]

Looks like 75, 316, and 1672 were just added, bringing the total to 47 right now, meaning 7 more teams left.

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by The Lucas

I don't think it is out of the question that MAR could extend the exception to backfill (next team based on pts) for the winning alliance is "already registered or qualify for a spot another way". This could be very important since I can see many plausible winning alliance combinations with 3 teams already registered for Worlds. I don't expect any backfilling for CA and/or EI if already registered teams 2590 or 3142 win them.

Can anyone get any official response to our 'backfilling' wonders: If a team that is ranked in the top 5 is already qualified for Champs from outside of MAR (HOF, Winner/Chairmans/EI/RAC at a regional, early registration), would the next highest ranked team get to go, and if not automatically, could the already qualified team gracious decline their spot through MAR?

[Jared Russell]

Up to 50 teams listed now (not counting 1712).

[Deetman]

Originally Posted by Jared341

Up to 50 teams listed now (not counting 1712).

You can count us now... up to 51!

[Cyclotron]

MAR just posted an updated event agenda on its website and on the FIRST event page - see link http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles..._PA_Agenda.pdf

Note that two rounds of qualifying matches will be held on Thursday at 4PM - be ready!

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Cyclotron

MAR just posted an updated event agenda on its website and on the FIRST event page - see link http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles..._PA_Agenda.pdf

Note that two rounds of qualifying matches will be held on Thursday at 4PM - be ready!

Does anyone see/know of any benefit to the Wednesday evening load-in versus waiting until Thursday morning?

Also, any idea why the 45 minutes Thursday morning are still reserved like that? It used to be for uncrating, but now that everyone's just opening a bag it seems that time could theoretically be given back to the teams.

[Deetman]

Originally Posted by Siri

Does anyone see/know of any benefit to the Wednesday evening load-in versus waiting until Thursday morning?

Also, any idea why the 45 minutes Thursday morning are still reserved like that? It used to be for uncrating, but now that everyone's just opening a bag it seems that time could theoretically be given back to the teams.

If I had to guess this is mainly for logistics purposes. The more you can split teams up trying to load in, the less congestion and confusion there should be both on the loading dock and the pits. I would imagine there will be a split with the teams closer to the Philadelphia area electing to load in Wednesday night and teams traveling a larger distance loading in Thursday morning. There is probably a volunteer benefit as well with needing less people there Wednesday night.

As for the dedicated 45 minutes, in addition to the logistics benefits of keeping the pits as clear as possible, this doesn't give a team that unloaded Wednesday night 45 minutes of extra time Thursday morning (although not that much in the FIRST world) that a team loading in Thursday would not have.

[Siri]

Originally Posted by Deetman

I would imagine there will be a split with the teams closer to the Philadelphia area electing to load in Wednesday night and teams traveling a larger distance loading in Thursday morning.

That all makes sense, thanks. So most of the teams that live over, say, an hour away will be checking in and unloading during the 45 minutes before the pits open on Thursday? Yikes. We may want to do it Wednesday after all...

[Hallry]

Originally Posted by Hallry

Can anyone get any official response to our 'backfilling' wonders: If a team that is ranked in the top 5 is already qualified for Champs from outside of MAR (HOF, Winner/Chairmans/EI/RAC at a regional, early registration), would the next highest ranked team get to go, and if not automatically, could the already qualified team graciously decline their spot through MAR?

I've been doing some more investigating:

Originally Posted by FiM 2012 Supplement Rules

The remaining 10 qualifying spots will be filled by starting at the top of the re-computed rankings and moving down as far as is necessary to fill the ten spots, skipping over teams that are already eligible or scheduled to attend.
*Note: To the extent any of the three teams on the winning alliance are already registered or qualify for a spot another way, the next available team in ranked order will be substituted in their place.

(emphasis mine)
and,

Originally Posted by according to Bill Miller in his most recent Bill's Blog post

We're not going to turn any teams away, so if you're already registered for championship, or if you earn a slot during week six or seven, there's already a space waiting for you.

So if St. Louis is expecting to accommodate the maximum number of teams, and since FiM skips over those teams (for ranking spots) that are already going to St. Louis, why wouldn't MAR do the same, and also pass over teams ranked in the top 5 that are already eligible? Does anyone have an official answer if they are going to or not? The MAR rules do not seem to have a definite answer, and only states:

Originally Posted by MAR 2012 Supplement Rules

The 5 spots for the top ranked teams will be filled by starting at the top of the rankings and moving down as far as is necessary to fill the 5 spots with teams other than the 7 award winners.

It says nothing about teams that qualify for St. Louis through means outside of MAR.

(Just for reference, 5 teams in the top 9 are already going to St. Louis, three of which are in the top 5)