Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

[Grim Tuesday]

Couldn't this be considered a field fault and be case for a match replay?

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Littleboy

Would hate to play with a rookie if that was the case 4000+ seconds = too long

Ahh, the infamous hunger game match. The last robot without a dead battery is the winner.

[Brian C]

Well let me try and clarify this a bit.

There are no "smoking guns", Field Faults or conspiracy theories regarding the scoring and timing overlay being removed from the big screen.

For those that aren't aware conference calls for Emcees and Game announcers are held prior to the competition season and on the Monday evening folowing all competition weekends. removing the overlay from the screen during the last half of the matches in Eliminations only was recommended in order to heighten the excitement of the crowd. The feeling was that having the overlay on the screen all the time kind of put a damper on the results due to the great real time scoring that was put into use this year.

This is NOT a new concept and has been a regular occurrence in past years.

As far as other Regionals such as NYC I can only say that it appears they did not follow this format for whatever reason. I was a judge at the Rutgers MAR event and the overlay was removed during Eliminations there.

For teams going to Championships I'd bet dollars to donuts that the overlays will be removed during Eliminations on the Division fields and on Einstein as well.

As far as looking at the screen for time left in the match, as someone mentioned earlier the time is shown on the front of each player station. As a matter of fact on a humorous note: One of the Emcee's at the SBPLI Regional introduced "Team 15" for an early match. I explained to him that team 15 was so good that they were in EVERY match Then I told him what the 15 really meant..........

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Brian C

For those that aren't aware conference calls for Emcees and Game announcers are held prior to the competition season and on the Monday evening folowing all competition weekends. removing the overlay from the screen during the last half of the matches in Eliminations only was recommended in order to heighten the excitement of the crowd. The feeling was that having the overlay on the screen all the time kind of put a damper on the results due to the great real time scoring that was put into use this year.

I was not aware that this is doctrine. Seriously?

Surely ensuring that each alliance actually knows the score and can make the right strategic decisions would make for more "excitement of the crowd" than seeing alliances unsure about when to go balance, and how many robots to try for.

I am sorry that the great real-time scoring puts a damper on things, but that's ridiculous.

[RobotMom]

Originally Posted by Brian C

For those that aren't aware conference calls for Emcees and Game announcers are held prior to the competition season and on the Monday evening folowing all competition weekends. removing the overlay from the screen during the last half of the matches in Eliminations only was recommended in order to heighten the excitement of the crowd. The feeling was that having the overlay on the screen all the time kind of put a damper on the results due to the great real time scoring that was put into use this year.
.........

They did not remove the overlay at either Regional our team attended, and I do have to agree that removing it definitely would have made some of the matches even more exciting! It's pretty easy to do the bridge balance math in your head!

It will make the decision to triple balance riskier...not knowing if you only needed to do a double to win ~ or go for a triple and risk getting nothing and losing. Interesting.

[Grim Tuesday]

I feel like there should be a GDC rather than 'committee of MCs and Announcers' ruling on something that affects the game as much as this does. I would ask the question on Q&A, but I can't seem to think of what section it should be in, and there is no 'other' option.

[RobotMom]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

I feel like there should be a GDC rather than 'committee of MCs and Announcers' ruling on something that affects the game as much as this does. I would ask the question on Q&A, but I can't seem to think of what section it should be in, and there is no 'other' option.

Good point. It would be great to get this cleared up before Championships. Sounds like it's a fairly ambiguous direction for the fields. You could have some division fields following this practice and others not at Championships?

[Brian C]

Originally Posted by Grim Tuesday

I feel like there should be a GDC rather than 'committee of MCs and Announcers' ruling on something that affects the game as much as this does. I would ask the question on Q&A, but I can't seem to think of what section it should be in, and there is no 'other' option.

There is NO committee!! We are all just volunteers that are asked to follow certain guidlines set forth by FIRST personnel. This is NOT a new concept and has been happening for many years.

Please don't think that we all just do what we want. Nothing could be further from the truth!

FIRST goes to great lengths to try and make all the Regional competitions have the same 'feel' regardless of which event you attend.

Removing the screen overlay has occurred as long as I can remember since I began in FIRST 13 years ago.

[Adam Freeman]

Originally Posted by Jared341

I was not aware that this is doctrine. Seriously?

Surely ensuring that each alliance actually knows the score and can make the right strategic decisions would make for more "excitement of the crowd" than seeing alliances unsure about when to go balance, and how many robots to try for.

I am sorry that the great real-time scoring puts a damper on things, but that's ridiculous.

I could not agree more! To me, even in matches we are not playing in, it is way more exciting to know EXACTLY what is going on during the match that I am watching. This includes seeing the score and knowing that the alliances are or are not executing an intelligent strategy that could win them a match.

If I am watching a match without a score, then how do I know what the teams on the field should be doing, other than scoring lots and lots of points and balancing as many robots as possible. Seems pretty boring to me....

Whats the point of having real time scoring in the first place then?

[Akash Rastogi]

Originally Posted by Brian C

Removing the screen overlay has occurred as long as I can remember since I began in FIRST 13 years ago.

Maybe this happens each year at Long Island? I haven't seen it happen at one of our events yet.

[Jared Russell]

Originally Posted by Brian C

Removing the screen overlay has occurred as long as I can remember since I began in FIRST 13 years ago.

This has not happened at the vast majority of events that I have attended or watched online since 2001-2002.

I have many vivid memories of looking to the scoreboard as the matches were ending over these years. Just to be sure I'm not crazy, I checked, and most of the archived match video of eliminations from these years (on The Blue Alliance or YouTube) preserves the real time scoring display throughout the match. For the most part these videos were scraped directly from the audience feed or webcast feed, meaning that if the displays are in those videos, they were also shown at the events.

See:
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2010on_qf1m2
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2009new_sf1m2
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2008pa_f1m2
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2007nj_f1m1
http://www.thebluealliance.com/match/2006il_f1m2
And so on.

[EricH]

Thirding the "I haven't seen it"--multiple years at West Coast events. This year is the first time I've seen it--at maybe a couple of webcasts.

I think it adds to the excitement to know that if that triple balance holds up, it's a win, but if one robot goes sprawling, it's over for that alliance. Adds suspense in a way that not knowing the score can never, ever do. (It also adds pressure on the drive coaches... but that's part of their job.)

[EdwardP]

One of the most exciting finishes I have seen this season was a qualification match at Davis featured one alliance down by 12 going for a double balance. They were struggling to get the double balance and it didn't look like they were going to make it (and the third team was cooping, so they couldn't score). Then a human player made a full court 3 point shot. A coach realized they were only down by 9, had one team get of the bridge, and the single balance went up with a few seconds left, and they won by 1. (I don't remember the teams.)

I really hate to see when it becomes impossible for good heads up, strategic play like this to be used. I feel like this sort of change makes situational play much more difficult, and removes strategy from the game.



Edit: and I have never seen this no-scoreboard thing implemented ever at any event I can remember, on webcast or in person.

[Brian C]

Thanks for the links Jared341. good information.

[Wayne Doenges]

I have been a mentor for 12 years and I have NEVER seen a screen where the time and score were removed.

Like someone else said. what if during an NBA basketball game the score was removed during the last one minute of play? The game would probably be stopped till it was fixed.