Removing time and score from big screen during elimination matches

[PAR_WIG1350]

I don't like the idea of not having the time/score display visible for the entire match one bit. The timers above the drivers' stations are useless since they blend in with the team number displays. Also, until FIRST can find a way to show all of the action on the field reliably and without compromising the ease of viewing (not showing closeups of RSLs for a quarter of the match would be a start) the scores are the only way to get an idea of what is happening on the field when the camera is facing the wrong direction. Some of the webcast footage and archived videos show about 5% of the action, The other 95% must be either inferred from the score, or described by the MC. That means if you take down the scores and a lot is happening on the field, as is often the case in elims, the webcast audience is left in the dark and incredibly bored (since MCs can't see and describe everything).

[Siri]

I hadn't noticed this practice until 2012--as a coach my memories are similar to Jared's--but I have to say I'm pretty put-off. Yes, I personally dislike it. But much more importantly, the practice literally contradicts information provided at several driver's meetings this season. It's even alluded to in the official video to the extent that I would expect a clarification at all events executing this policy, regardless. (I do believe all the referees and other volunteers were acting in good faith, simply without realizing this contradiction.)

Whether or not this has been a common practice in prior years, the changes in real-time scoring this year should have and still do warrant a much more official decision. To think that it was encouraged because of the real-time scoring is just unbelievable--even more so than the practice itself.

Originally Posted by Wayne Doenges

Like someone else said. what if during an NBA basketball game the score was removed during the last one minute of play? The game would probably be stopped till it was fixed.

And in the NBA, there's only one basketball! Try real-time coaching while keeping track of 8 hoops with 18 balls in circulation.

[jvriezen]

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

Also, until FIRST can find a way to show all of the action on the field reliably and without compromising the ease of viewing (not showing closeups of RSLs for a quarter of the match would be a start) the scores are the only way to get an idea of what is happening on the field when the camera is facing the wrong direction. Some of the webcast footage and archived videos show about 5% of the action, ...

I wish the web casts showed the angle shown here: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list...F&feature=plcp (at least for this year's game.) Ideally, there would be two webcast feeds, one from each end, so you could run both or pick one.

[Brian C]

Well I have to apologize.

I came home from work and looked over my notes from the conference calls and they referred to delaying in putting the final scores up on the screen after the match. That's what I get for posting while I should have been working.

Sorry.

[Tristan Lall]

I'm definitely not a fan of the scores being concealed. Especially not all of a sudden, after the teams have begun to rely upon them. And especially not after FIRST implied that real-time scoring would be present during matches (though I suppose, strictly speaking, they never guaranteed the scores would be visible).

I'm surprised nobody tried to have the head referee declare a field fault. (They might not have succeeded, but at least it would have brought the issue to the forefront.)

[Will_C640]

Originally Posted by fsracer

The time and score were removed from the big

we did not realize that all we had to do was keep shooting and go for the double balance( which we did repeatedly in 10 sec) for a most likely win and the championship, since we had won the first final. (We rushed the triple and were not successful).

I sincerely feel that this practice affected the outcome of the game.

I am interested in the FIRST community's comments on this issue.

Thanks all for listening to my venting.

Mr. S., Mentor 3137

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJ6q1...eature=channel

This video is of the 2nd Final Match at SPBLI, you can see the ticker still shown all the way up until the 30 second mark, and at that point it appears they already decided to attempt their triple balance and failed and instead of going back and scoring they decide to just attempt it once again...

[GaryVoshol]

At Troy during the qualification matches, the scores stayed up the entire time. They were even up while I was punching in the bridge results, so that the actual final score appeared even before the Whoosh! sound. I thought that was a little weird at first, but got used to the idea.

At some time on Saturday, I don't remember if it was morning or afternoon, I noticed that the scores were removed in the last final seconds of the match - maybe 5 seconds, certainly no more than 10. That gave a little more suspense to announcing the final score, but still allowed teams and audience to see the score throughout the match.

I don't know who made the call to show or not show the score.

It was noted several places that real-time scoring was the reason for having the automatic ball counters and the ref foul pads. Turning the score off defeats that purpose.

[Alpha Beta]

Dropping the scores from the big screen at the end of the match, especially before the last 10 seconds seems like it would hurt the decision making on the field much more than it would enhance the suspense for the audience.

1st, the live audience has a much larger opportunity to view the entire field and keep track of the score in their head than does a drive coach. It seems dumb for the stands to know more about the score than the teams on the field.

2nd, when the score goes away the audience generally notices immediately and knows the most recent score. The drive team may not notice right away, but in the moment one of them decides to check it can be a huge surprise to not see it there.

3rd, Last years endgame everyone sent their minibot up the pole as fast as possible regardless of the score. There wasn't a decision to make. This year triple balancing is a risk, and if a double balance is enough to preserve the win teams should be allowed to make that decision with the best information available.

4th, is the web audience supposed to get into the competition or just be impressed with robots moving around. If the former, they need the score as much as anyone. Last year I loved the MSC televised broadcast. I wonder if that tv production crew would agree with this score pulling shenanigans for audience suspense.

Probably saying all the same things everyone else is here, just wanted to add my Amen to the choir.

PS. I can live with it in the last 5 seconds. Usually all the major decisions for the drive team have been made by then. Of course in many high end elimination matches everyone is already on a bridge by then and pulling the scores serves no purpose.

[George A.]

Personally from my time as announcing, I work it out with the scorekeepers to take the score down immediately after the buzzer sounds. That way it doesn't interfere with any match play, but still gives us a bit of excitement before the big reveal. We also only do this for the semi-finals and final rounds.

[Gray Adams]

Originally Posted by George A.

Personally from my time as announcing, I work it out with the scorekeepers to take the score down immediately after the buzzer sounds. That way it doesn't interfere with any match play, but still gives us a bit of excitement before the big reveal. We also only do this for the semi-finals and final rounds.

I like this method best. Drive teams know the score, and the reveal is really about finding out if all balances are legit. Adds a bit of suspense, makes it clear what the final score is, and doesn't change the game.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

At some time on Saturday, I don't remember if it was morning or afternoon, I noticed that the scores were removed in the last final seconds of the match - maybe 5 seconds, certainly no more than 10. That gave a little more suspense to announcing the final score, but still allowed teams and audience to see the score throughout the match.

I can deal with not having the score for the last 5 seconds, but can they at least keep the time?

[StevenB]

I think this is a case of trying to drag tradition into this year's game. Yes, in the past, the score wasn't official until the robots stopped moving, all the points were counted, and the penalties were subtracted. Revealing the score was a big deal.

But since we're playing basketball this year, let's play it like basketball. When the timer hits zero, and the hail-mary shot hits the floor, the crowd erupts. It's over. One team wins. In basketball, they don't stop for twenty seconds, make everyone sit down and be quiet, and try to introduce some artificial suspense before unveiling the score. When the buzzer goes off, everyone knows who won. In basketball, the suspense doesn't occur after the game, it peaks during the intense hard-fought plays as the clock winds down. Rebound Rumble is the same.

[rsisk]

This is a good argument for having a score display on the field, similar to the way time is displayed.

[PAR_WIG1350]

Originally Posted by rsisk

This is a good argument for having a score display on the field, similar to the way time is displayed.

But that would just blend into the team number displays as well, They need a way to make the timer more obvious, like arrows or a contrasting border.

[kjohnson]

Originally Posted by PAR_WIG1350

But that would just blend into the team number displays as well, They need a way to make the timer more obvious, like arrows or a contrasting border.

The timers have a strip of 2" white Gaffer's tape across the top, the team number displays do not.